I know it will not make any difference but did the Rockets trade Gay or the 8th pick? There seem to be a misconception or misunderstanding of the fans including myself that the Rockets would have picked Gay if it was not for the trade. According to the Chronicle, even if the trade was not in place the Rockets would have passed on Gay for Thabo Sefolosha or Ronnie Brewer. The Rockets merely selected the player that Memphis wanted them to pick. Just like Richard Jefferson. The Rockets picked him at #13 but that was New Jersey's pick. The Rockets would have picked someone else. Quoted from the Chronicle: http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/4014253.html Even without the trade, the Rockets were never going to take Gay. They tried to trade up for Brandon Roy, chosen sixth, missed Randy Foye, who was selected seventh, by one spot and preferred Thabo Sefolosha, picked 13th, and Ronnie Brewer, selected 14th. Instead, the Rockets went with Battier, the sixth pick of the 2001 draft. If that is the case then how would you feel if the Rockets drafted Sefolosha or Brewer with the 8th pick and passed on Gay. No trades are involved. Either way the Rockets would not have gotten Gay. So the question again was, were we trading Swift & #8 for Battier or was it Swift and Gay for Battier. If it was the former then we should stop mentioning Gay's name. My whole point is, the Rockets management would have screwed either way, by trading Gay or passing on him.
I think the outrage would have been similar, but it was heightened by the sight of watching Gay walk to the podium and put on a Rockets hat, while knowing that he was headed to Memphis.
It's simple. The Rockets picked Rudy Gay for MEM. Jerry West had Rudy Gay in his Top 2 and was dangling Battier as trade bait for anyone interested. The Rockets didn't have Gay as Top 5 and (dumbly) told West that if Gay fell to #8, they had a deal. Where they erred (probably because they didn't see much possibility of Gay falling to 8) was that they didn't get enough concessions from MEM. They had no contingency plan to shop Gay. Most of the static around here isn't about Battier. It's about value for value.
The premis makes sense. The rockets would be in a worse off position if they kept the pick and passed on Gay. I would much rather actively go after a specific, established player than draft a unknown that has potential and watch some other team find a gem that we could have picked. This is about the rockets today, not some rebuilding team that is looking 3 to 4 years out. Slightly off subject . . . I know this is probably contrary to a big group on this board, but getting rid of swift is an addition by subtraction. Knowing our coach, we would have two roster spots filled up with people who wouldn't get any time. I'd rather a team full of RYBO's than some decent players that JVG won't play. Like it or not, this is his team, his system. If Jeff aint' gonna play them, then I don't want them filling space on our roster. Finally, CD might have gotten this message over the past few weeks. In the end, I don't think that some of the moves in the past were all JVG. Stomile came over because he was the best player for the $$$ at the 4 (given the free agent market), not because JVG was pleading to get him. Give the man the players that he wants. If the rockets still can't do it . . . adios Jeff, nice knowing you.
That's pretty much it. "Value." How about Howard+#8(Gay) for Battier+#24(Ager)+Warrick. I think people would feel alot better if we got TWO YOUNG assets in Ager/Warrick along with Battier and dumped Howard's contract while giving up the HUGE potential of Rudy Gay (the guy that was #2 on Jerry West's draft board).
So techincally it was for Gay, but we scarified Sefolosha/ Brewer. Then, I think Gay should not be in the discussion! Gay was an opportunity cost that we would have missed on either way.
The issue is the rockets did not get nearly enough....there's absolutely no reason why they did not get Memphis #24 pick. That is inexcusable. I seriously doubt that would have been a deal breaker for Jerry West. The rockets were able to get Luther Head last year at that point and could have gotten another backup swing player. On top of that, they failed to unload the contract of Juwan Howard in this deal.
Sorry i could not find it again but i have read an article on Draftexpress that says that we did indeed trade the pick because he was not one of our top 5 guys. I also read that we did have a deal in place to acquire brandon roy from minnesota in exchange for randy foye and other player considerations. It doesnt really matter whats done is done but every one needs to relax and wait until we are done winning our 55+ games this season!
Maybe there was nobody at 24 that they thought could help the team, and didn't want to tie up a guranteed contract. It seems they should have been able to get a next year's #1 though.
My main reason for this thread is that we should not associate Gay with Batier. It is #8 vs. Batier, Gay is who Memphis decided to pick. Gay was not on the Rockets plans anyway and had the Rockets kept the pick they would have selected someone else. Some people think that if we did not win a championship with Batier and Gay became an Allstar then the trade is bad. Again we should not associate Gay with Batier. Gay is a player who we just passed on. Just like passing on Arenas for example. The value of the pick is just a different discussion.
DONT BLAME ROCKETS MANAGEMENT!!! BLAME THE F"**KING ATL HAWKS! How stupid could they be? Why pick up Shelden Williams at #8 when you could have had Williams and possibly Head? I mean, we don't know the whole thing to it, maybe Rockets management wasn't willing to let Head go after a pretty good rookie season, but I see the Hawks as the one to blame. And I just added the F**King JailBlazers as to the teams I hate along with the Hawks and Mavs b/c they ruined everything for the Rockets!!! Thank god they got screwed by the Bulls and Timberwolves!
One of the scenarios had Houston trading Head and 8 to Minnesota after they got Roy. They Hou would pick Foye, but you're right Portland jumped in and threatened to take Foye for themselves and Minn had to deal with them. I know everyone's mad, but let's cut the use of f-ing this and that. This board is not the espn board- we're a step above it, so let's keep it that way.
The spin didn't work. We traded #8 Gay for Battier. That's all there is. Might work, might not, but who helped decide the pick is irrelevant.
How can it be irrelevant? Gay was never going to be a Rocket, we didn't want him. You have to say we passed on a chance to draft Gay, just like we passed on a chance to draft Brewer, Carney, and anyone else that came after him.
What is so difficult to understand. There were two different events: 1. We passed on Gay. We did not want him. 2. We traded #8 and Swift for Battier and Memphis wanted us to pick Gay. Please read the whole thread. Gay just happend to be the player Memphis chose. That is the misconception. We passed on Gay, we should get over it. The trade is a different discussion.
No way would I be as outraged if we passed on Gay to draft Brewer or Sefolosha. I can live with the rox deciding that either of those prospects are more solid than Gay. I'd trust their draft board just because I don't know these prospects as well as scouts and such. We'd get to keep Stro (even if he's just used for future trade fodder), and we'd have a talented young player on a favorable rookie deal. Everybody crucifies the Bucks because they traded Dirk for Tractor Traylor, despite the fact that they probably had no intention whatsoever of drafting him. So if Gay hits it big and we don't start winning titles left and right, the front office will get roasted. And I personally will hold a grudge if the same thing happens to Brewer because I was extremely high on him, and it seemed like he was a contingency plan for the Rox as well.
Why should we not blame the Rockets management? lol It's not our fault they only liked a handful of guys in the first round. But come on, the first 13-14 picks have the potential to be decent, if not, great players in the NBA. With the 8th pick, they knew someone with potential would be left before they decided to trade the pick away. We knew before the draft even started that we could get Redick too, or at least someone to replace Bowen with. And the excuse with the players not being developed yet for the NBA... good point, but we're not asking these guys to carry the franchise on their back. We just needed someone that could shoot an open shot or help out in some way when our 2 stars get double-teamed. In the long run... its just not fair to the fans. Everyone was really looking forward to this draft pick for a long time. We put up with a long, depressing season for it. We spent hours debating who would be the perfect fit only for it to be traded away.
Really. Show us that deal instead, and some howling would still have ensued, but of a considerably diminished volume. That is not a bad trade. What we did do has to be a violation of the Geneva Convention. Crimes against humanity, for sure.
What I am thinking at this point is... the Rocket management and JVG had a depressed, negative attitude from the outset on this draft. (JVG's highest expectation was that a role player might fall their way, and also said that they couldn't get it wrong this time.) They never had a vision of how anything positive might come of it, so they played it as if the worst was going to happen. And that thinking must have permeated everyone, so that played it as, well, How can we minimize damage? rather than maximize gain. They never saw any other scenario except that we can at least possibly come out of this with Battier. Not only did the Rockets predict -negatively, but accurately - that their top five picks would probably be gone, they didn't see any chance that Gay (or anyone highly sought after by some other team) would still be available - and plan on that contigency (totally inaccurate). The Rocket attitude went from: 1. depressed about the draft in general...to 2. fear, that if they messed up, it would be a disaster if they didn't at least come out of it with something...to 3. Extreme caution and failure to even envision that something exceptional might drop into their hands. My speculation. Take it for what its worth. I'm not really into psycho-babble, but the Rockets were depressed about this draft from the outset, and consequently, they got a depressing result.
