Surgeon general: No safe level of secondhand smoke

Deleted.

 

this is the best part of a great post. i'm all for compromise but the outright ban is weak. bars are for debauchery, plain and simple. go to your bridge club or tupperware party if you're looking for wholesome entertainment.

 

i think this is a really good post, but i still support the smoking ban.

 

Give'em He*#!.

I'm enjoying being of bigtexxxs' side for once.

ALL EMPLOYEES DESERVE A SAFE WORK ENVIRONMENT!

If there was some sort of self serve bar that had no one in there but customers then maybe.


BTW, people thought it would ruin NYC's night life but now even most smokers I know like the ban.

 

Yippee, then they can work at a non-smoking bar. It's soooo easy to understand. Just give it a little try.


Bigtexx's post was so lame it's just sad. It sounds like he has never had an ounce of fun in his life. Some bars should be smokey, dirty etc. I don't want beansprout salad at the biker bar. That's just the way it is.

 

And this is less lame?

 

But there would still be employees at the "smoking bar"?

"just don't work in a coal mine if you don't want black lung" didn't work.
"just don't work in a building with aspestos if you don't want canser" nope.
"just don't work in a machine shop if you want to keep your finger" don't think so.
"hey if they don't want to work 16 hrs a day they can find another job" sorry.

Why do waiters and bartenders not deserve the same treatment?

 

Here is a pic of my patio bar (in Rockets mode). It is a real bar. You can drink, smoke, and listen to rock and roll. And during the cooler parts of the year I like to build FIRES in the back!!!!. SO RUN! The fire makes smoke. But it is real fun to get drunk, sit around the fire very late at night and burn things while listening to some tunes. Good times.

 

LOL ... this former smoker joins the bigtexxx-SamFisher alliance too!

Rock on, brah!

 

Dude, a lot of bartenders etc smoke themselves. Got it?

 

dirty, smokey bars > clean, sterile "bars"

i don't actually think texxx's post was too bad, i just have a different opinion. to each his own i say. i just wish smokers still had the freedom of choice that the overly health-conscious do.

 

People don't need to drink, and it is a public hazard not only to the drinkers but also to others. Maybe we should ban drinking in bars.

Also, loud music causes hearing loss, even in people who aren't in a bar for the music. Why can't they just sit in a bar and enjoy their water without having to worry about hearing loss? Maybe we should ban music in bars.

Also, many people have sex with other people after meeting them in bars, and this is definitely the source of many unwanted pregnancies (which sometimes lead to abortion!) and some even-more-unwanted STDs which could be spread to partners who never go to bars in the first place! Maybe we should ban co-ed bars.

I have an idea: Let's convert all the dirty dive bars into magic hypoallergenic inflatable castles where no one wears dangerous shoes and we can all giggle at the fluffy bunnies who hippity-hop to some pleasantly low-volume Kenny Loggins hits murmuring in the background at our giant vegetarian picnic of temperate happiness! Well shucks, I am so gosh darn happy that I could just...just...smile faintly! Goodness!

(p.s. there will be time limits on petting the bunnies to prevent carnal temptations)

 

a little. Would brochette been better?

 

Bwahahahaa!

 

True...but the difference is, I UNDERSTAND better why the world laughs at the US, like getting a collective a wad in the panties over a smoking ban (or abortion or Rush Limbaugh's Viagra or the political opinions of the Dixie Chicks or the private lives of George W. Bush or Hilary Clinton, just as examples), when there are far more important things to worry about.

When I lived in LA I never thought how strange it was that not only a helicopter was used to chase down a stolen car, but that news choppers all followed it too. Anywhere else in the world this would be laughed at as an extreme example of conspicuous consumption. Is that much taxpayer money really worth reclaiming someone's '91 Honda Civic?

Here the only time helicopters are used to chase cars is to blow up cars with terrorists in them, and even then half the country (and world) complains about it.

Well, I'd be just as quick to call them sissies as well. But I was in Spain and Portgugal less than a year ago, and I can tell you from first hand experience, people weren't just smoking in bars, a lot of other things were being administered and no one seemed to give a damn.

In fact, in Portgugal I don't think there is even an age limit on drinking or smoking. If there is it certainly isn't enforced. I think progressive is a relative term.

 

PETA would be all over your ass. Better make it people in bunny suits.

 

Put me firmly on the texxx side of this argument. We have a smoking ban in Ontario now, and it has been great. One of the major things I hated about going out to bars (I still went) was how smelly they made my hair and clothes afterwards, and the sore throat I used to get from breathing in all the smoke. Now, going to a bar is a completely enjoyable experience.

I see smoking itself and the pathetic attempt to fight for so-called smoker's rights to be a severe weakness of character. When you combine the cost of cigarettes, the evilness of the tobacco industry and the overall general disgustingness of smoking with the negative health effects of first and second-hand cigarette smoke, that seems to be the only logical conclusion. There simply is no real benefit of smoking and I long for the day when it is outlawed completely.

 

I'm not. And it didn't take me 30 minutes. I'm a writer by profession. And I'm no MacBeth. My mother wasn't a virgin, and I live with a fat unemployed DJ, not four teenage models or whatever it was.

The point is I don't want the Surgeon General or ay other goverment official (much less an unelected one) to "protect" me from my own vices that I freely choose. That's one of the reasons I left California.

The debate isn't about how harmful smoking is. I used to work for the Microbiology and Molecular Genetics Department at UCLA and was the lone smoker on South Campus (excepting the German postdocs in the Chemistry department). I've been told by many of the cancer researchers a visit to their lab would be a compelling argument to never smoke again. Well, there was this one post-doc who used to bum cigs off of me. But she was different from all those Bruins...she got her undergrad degree at Rice and made fun of the PC California people.

Don't take things so personally when people don't agree with you. No one is insulting you. I'm just mocking your extremely PC position, and mostly for breaking with what I thought were sound political principles about not wanting government to be a nanny.

I'm in Grad School. I am educating myself.

Then why do you need the goverment to do it for you?

People who are concerned about health problems from second hand smoke shouldn't go to a bar. Most of us engage in some sort of activity that others would find self-destructive. Or even dangerous to others. But, frequenting a smokey bar isn't going to kill you. I promise. It might even make you more interesting.

The bottom line is, you believe that people have all the rights in the world, as long as they are same ones that matter to you. You arguments about smoking in bars, in principle can be used to debunk a lot assumptions you have about what freedom entails, from private gun ownership, to lassaiz-faire economics, to property rights.

Banning guns, socialized medicine and practicing imminent domain for the good of the community certainly is going to affect the over health and well-being for the majority of people, but you would quickly fight these efforts, I'm sure. Most Americans would, and only because they conflict with their own idea of what liberty entails.

The difference is, you can chose not to go to a bar, if smoking bothers you that much. And if someone is smoking in a public place, you can make an effort to ask them to stop. Your argument isn't about health. It's about you not liking cigarette smoke.

 

i long for the day that people can mind their own business