The problem is that a word like ******* doesn't carry the same baggage that a word like *** does. There entire reason a word like *** is used as a slur is because of its dehumanizing and discriminatory nature, which is entirely different than a word like *******. Further, the whole line of justification that you advance re: someone called you a *** and you weren't offended is weak. That you are not offended does not mean it is not offensive and more importantly that point does NOTHING to address the contention that its acceptability reinforces discrimination and dehumanization in the larger society. However, again I ask you why you would use the word if its meaningless to you but offensive and potentially harmful? Why not just use ******* or another word that does not have the discriminatory baggage?
Quite frankly, because if everyone in our group called everyone "a**hole" it wouldn't be nearly as clever or funny as manatee, mogwai, petrified baby, etc. Our entire group works off the cuff. We do it because WE find it funny. I personally don't see how our conversation with ourselves is anyone else's business. Let's just agree to disagree. I may use possible derogatory terms too openly, while you may be too easily offended. But I do feel that the more words are expressed, the less impact they have on the originally offended group.
Personally, I think there is a time and place for everything. If it is just you and your buddies and no one is offended, talk however you like. If I am at a raucus sports bar and I hear the "f" word being thrown around, I don't say a thing even though I'd prefer not to hear the word bandied about. If I am at a family restaurant and I hear the same thing, I'll ask the person (in a polite way) to watch their language. Depending on the time, place and circumstance decorum changes. Way back when (so long ago, that Guillen would have called Mariotti a 'queer'), when I was young, my friends and I used foul language quite often, but we would never dream of using it if anyone (including fellow classmates) would hear us.
So you think we should use n***** MORE around black people and they'll become LESS offended by it? Wow. Again I'll ask the question: If '***' doesn't mean anything to you but is offensive to others AND possibly detrimental then why not stop using it? Are you 100% certain it has no detrimental effect?
To be fair, I think that Chappelle show, along with countless others have made it less offensive over time. Do you even hang out with any black people these days? I've been around them since kindergarten. And, once again, I should be able to call someone in my group anything I want. Once again, what business is it of anyone else's?
I'm not even sure why you should be able to call someone in your group anything you want - there is no inalienable right to use '***.' That's just silly. Maybe you're too sensitive about having an unabridged 'right' to do whatever you want. You don't live in a vaccuum, FFB. I seriously doubt you only use the word when sequestered away from the rest of humanity. Why do you limit your use of the word at all? After all, you believe the more we say it the less impact it has, right? Why don't you use it around kids? You said you don't but why not? According to your theory you'd be helping everyone out by using it all the time! Could it be that you really do understand the term shouldn't be used? It doesn't COST you anything to stop. It might HURT someone else or society at large. Why continue to do it?
I think the last thing anyone will ever call me is "too sensitive." As for your "serious doubt?" The only times I use those words is around my friends, in my car, and when I'm alone. What? You think I can say anything in the workplace or around children? If you believe that, you already have no respect for me, so I won't bother continuing. If you realize that you may have misspoke, I'll continue. There are certainly words and actions that children don't need to see or hear until they're mature enough. You have no problems with sex, right? Does that mean you should do that around children, as well? What about the term "mother f*****?" Even though context completely dictates how it was meant, is there ever a right time to say it around children? There is a time and place for everything. Something you've yet to grasp.
I think he hasn't "grasped" it yet because he doesn't agree with it. I don't believe there's any time or any place for racial or homosexual slurs.
"Son, how many girls called you today? Zero? And how many girls called you yesterday? Lemme guess: zero? Well, you know what they say, son. Zero plus zero equals ***! Zero times any other number always equals ***! Think about it, ya little mathematician." http://youtube.com/watch?v=6VOOuiNh0Xw&search=drank why is it funny when the Kids In The Hall say it?
Which is fine. To each their own. As I stated earlier, he thinks I'm being insensitive. I think he's being overly sensitive. The fact that I know gay people and black people and neither are offended by it tells me that he may be out of touch.
Mask Man (in the background): Hi Ho, Silver! Dominic: What's with that putz? The schmuck didn't wait! Mamma made coffee and cake and everything. What is the hell is with that guy? I got my hand out like some jackoff and he's already on his horse already! Person 2: Yeah, yeah: "The Lone Ranger" -- so what the hell does that make him? Dominic: What an *******! Is he kidding, that guy? Schmuck! I'm standing there like this with the Mayor and a plaque and everything. . . . I'm going to punch the **** out of him if I ever see him again! Person 1: Take it easy, Dominic. . . . Dominic: Take it easy, my balls! Is that guy kidding me? Person 2: Look, he's the Lone Ranger. He's a good-natured schmuck, he ain't got a quarter. [Pause.] You don't know about him? He's got a problem and goes to analysis. He can't accept love. Dominic: Eh? Person 2: We don't even need him any more. He comes around here -- we recognize the mask with snot all over it. It's disgusting! But he likes to go through it so we play it out for him, ya know. Here's his favorite bit. Person 3: Hey you! What'd ya have a mask on for? Are you an outlaw? Person 2: This makes him really crazy. Mask Man: I'm an outlaw! I'm an outlaw! You should be an outlaw the way I am an outlaw! Person 3: So why do you wear a mask? Mask Man: Never mind! I'm an outlaw. Get away from me kids, I hurt people. Person 2: Is that believable? "I'm an outlaw"?! Mask Man (to himself): Get a kick in the ass for being nice to people?! I'm out for Number One from now on, brother. No one is going to **** on me. I'm out for Number One, boy; Number One is the one and then they get, later. Person 4: Nice guy?! How come the ******* leaves bullets then? Person 1: I don't know. That is kinda weird. Person 4: Sure he's nice: the ******* leaves bullets for kids to fool around with! Person 2: I told you what the innuedo is: Dr. Ehrlich the Magic Bullet. Person 4: What's that? Person 2: Syphillis. Person 4: Eh? Person 2: He's telling you in his own special way that the whole world has syphillis. Person 1: Dr. Ehrlich the Magic Bullet! Of course. Person 2: Why do you think he rides off with his mouth closed? Mask Man (in background): Hmmm hmmmm hmm-hmmmm! Person 4: Are you kidding with that? Person 2: Of course, when he's outta audible range he's goes on and on about how he thinks he might of caughta dose. Dominic: Oh, yeah? Well, I'm going to beat the **** outta him. Get the horses ready: I'm gonna punch them first. Sound of horses. Sheriff: Hold the fire on the North ridge! Hold it! Dominic: OK, Mask Man: I'm gonna whup the **** outta you, buddy, right now. Sheriff: Whew! God-damn, it took us about 15 minutes -- boy, you think you're pretty god-damn smart. You're hot ****, aintcha, buddy? Dominic: Look at these kids here, they made cookies and wrote a song called "Thank You, Mask Man." There's your hero! The man too good to accept a "Thank You" from little children, little children in the crey-paper costumes. Right now, buddy, you're going to explain or I'm going to whup the hell outta you, you hear? Mask Man: I'll explain if you get your god-damn hands offa me, you barbarian! You see, the reason I never wait for "Denk you" izzat I put two boys true college. Sheriff: What's that? Mask Man: Dot's right! I put two boys true college and I don' even get a "Denk you"! Sheriff: A "Denk you"?! Oi veys mir! The Mask Man's a Jew! Mask man: Of course, schmuck! Dot's why I never talk on the radio show -- all you ever heard me say on the radio show was "Hi Ho Silver!" -- dot's all! You see. . . . Some goyim are coming? Zugnish! Don't zay a void! . . . OK. You I tell. The reason I never wait for a thank you is that -- well, supposing that I did wait for a thank you. Just for a supposition. Little boy or girl: Thank you, Mask Man. Mask Man: What's that? Little boy or girl: Thank you, Mask Man. Mask Man: "Thank you, Mask Man"? Who the **** said that? Little boy or girl: I said it. Thank you, Mask Man. Voices (in background): Help! Help! Mask man! Mask man! Mask Man: Just a moment, getting a few thank-yous here. Voices (in background): Mask man! Mask man! Help! Help! Mask Man: Don't break my balls, now! I've done you people a whole lotta good and now I wanna get a few thank-yous in return. Little boy or girl: Thank you, mask Man. Mask Man: "Thank you, Mask Man." Is zis vot I've been running away from all deese years? What a god-damn fool I've been to run away from a sound like dis. It's beautiful! Let me hear it again! Voices (in background): Help! Mask Man! Mask man! Help! Mask Man: Not you, you miserable ingrates! I mean you, wit da babyface. Little boy or girl: Thank you, mask Man. Mask Man: "Thank you, Mask Man." Isn't that something? I'm going to get a "Thank you, Mask man" every god-damn day! I'll put 'em all down in a book: It'll say" Thank you, Mask Man." Do you think that I've always worked at this ****ing hardware store? Hey, you see that? You see what it says right there? Everybody: Thank you, Mask Man! Mask Man: -- It's signed "People of Syosset, Long Island." Izzn't dot something? When I'm old, I can lean back on my book of "Thank You, Mask Man"s. Yes, it's true I can't ride anymore, but would you like to see a little something that I did? Look at that. Woman formerly in distress: Thank you, mask Man. Mask Man: Then one day, it's almost five o'clock. Where is the "Thank You Mask Man" Man? Has the "Thank You Mask man" Man been here today? You do have a "Thank You, Mask man" for me, don't you? I thought it would last forever. I've led a very flamboyant existence: I've pissed all my "Thank You's" away. You don't have have any, do you? Just gimme one, so I can make it to the next town. One "Thank You, Mask man"? The Prophet (booming): There are no more "Thank You, Mask Man"s. The Messiah came during the night. All is pure. [Pause.] You're in the ****house. Mask man: The Messiah? But what has this to do with me? The Prophet: Well, you see -- you are like men such as Jonas Salk, Lenny Bruce and J. Edgar Hoover. These men thrive upon the continuance of disease, segregation, and violence. The purity they do profess a need for, they just feed upon. Mask Man: You mean? The Prophet: Yes! Without polio, Salk is a putz. Mask Man: Well, then, I'll make trouble. Because I'm geared for it. And I must have a "Thank you, Mask Man," at all costs. . . . You see, this way what I don't have, I don't miss -- that's why I always ride off without waiting for a thank you. City official: God-damn it, Mask Man! Whoo-wee! You can sure talk your ass off! What the **** you talkin' about? All this Commie horse****: "Thank you, Mask Man." The kids fell asleep. Wilbur's got blue balls, he's got to get back to the base! He's got me dizzy with all that bull****: "Thank you, Mask Man." Look, buddy, I'm here -- I'm working for the City, you know what I'm saying? I'm just here to take a photo with you for the Daily News, and then get the hell outta here. C'mon now, shape up and accept a present, and then we can haul ass. Mask Man: A present? For the children? Alright I'll do it -- no ashtrays, though. . . . Gimme the Indian over there! City official: Who, Tonto? Mask Man: Yes, I want Tanta, or whatever the spic-half-bred's name is. I'll take him. City official: Spic half-bred?! God-damn, you can't have Tonto. Mask man: Bull****! You made the deal, and that's what I want: I want Tanta the Indian! City official: Look, buddy, his name ain't Tanta, its Tonto and you can't have Tonto. Mask man: Bull****! I want Tanta, I want Tanta the Indian! City official: God-damn you, you hippy freak, I wanna tell you -- What the hell do you want Tonto for, anyway? Mask Man: To perform an unnatural act. City official: What? Mask Man: You heard me: to perform an unnatural act. City official: The Mask Man is a ***! God-damn! The Mask Man is a ***! The masked *** Man! Oh, Lord! I'm getting dizzy. Don't look at him kids! The bad *** Man. Oh! {Spluttering.] The Masked Bad *** Damn Man. You *** b*stard, you! God-damn it, kids! Mask Man, I never knew you were that way! Mask Man: I'm not a ***, but I've heard so much about it, I've read a lot of exposes on how bad it is, and I want to try it, just once. . . . You know? I like what they do with fags in this country: the punishment is quite correct and consistent with the rest of the law: lock 'em up with a bunch of other men -- hmmm, very clever. . . . Uh, wash him up and get him ready! And, uh, I tell you what, uh -- give me that white horse, too. City official: [Pause.] What do you want that horse for? Mask man: For the act. City official: You twisted *** b*stard! The horse for the act! The horse: Nay-ay-ay-ay! City official: Get off him, Tanta, that's terrible! Mask Man (riding off): Hi ho, Silver!
Best Kids in the Hall skit ever. I've been quoting the entire thing since I first saw it. Hey son! You know how you always wanted me to buy you a puppy? Well today I bought you one! But on the way home, I ate it! Awwwww, I'm joking son! I'm just joking! I'd never buy you a puppy.
You have one black friend that doesn't mind you calling him n***** so that translates into me being out of touch? That would be funny if it weren't so tragic. While there is an argument that an oppressed class can gain empowerment be seizing discriminatory words for their own use - that's the best case scenario. Your usage doesn't get that effect though since you're neither black nor gay. And you continue to avoid the simple question posed which is why use the term. Why use it? Is it because its generally taboo? Does it give you a little thrill to call your black friend n***** and not get an adverse reaction? There is no affirmative reason why you need to use the word ***. The only reason you even attempt to put forth is because 'I ought to be able to say whatever I want.' That is pretty sad. As for your usage of the term, I seriously doubt it because I doubt you have strict rules about when and where you use it. Do you only use it when you are only with your 'friends' and not in a public place? Do you ever use it when you are with your 'friends' and one of their 'friends?' Do you ever use it when you are with some friends and some acquaintances in a social setting like a party or a bar or a ballgame? I doubt you only use it in private and only with your friends. And your children argument is a joke. You shield them because they are not mature enough to handle it? You argument is that the word doesn't have meaning - it doesn't mean anything. So what is there to protect them from? If when you say to your 'friends' - "you ***" - you don't mean "you homosexual/you weakling/you deviant/you not 'real' man" then what is the problem? The problem is that saying '***' does have meaning. It IS attached to a particular oppressed group and it is used in a derogatory manner exactly as you use it for a putdown. That is the problem. You think its ok to call your heterosexual friends homosexual as a 'friendly' putdown without realizing that you don't get to wish away the implications of such rhetoric. In the end you could never say the word again and it wouldn't change your life at all. So why do it?
I have plenty of black friends. But one hangs out with us on a regular basis. Sheesh! I'm tired of arguing this. Every one of my friends think you are completely crying a river over this, as I'm sure all of your friends think I'm insensitive (if you've brought it up to them.) It is why people are different. My friends and I all know what we mean when we say it. Your concern about the issue does nothing to dissuade that. I find the points I've made are completely valid. If you look back through the posts, you'll see some people agree with my take, while others agree with yours. It doesn't make either of us "bad people." Honestly, I can call my friend a tub-of-goo, and I'd get less reaction from it than this. And fat people are just as oppressed these days. Goodness, this brick wall-arguing gets old.
I don't think you're a bad guy, Fatty. I just think you're misguided and you're being stubborn. You could never say '***' again and it wouldn't change your life at all.
