US still main threat to stability in European eyes

What Max said, and I'll add that all Hitler had to do was not declare war on the United States, and there is no telling when we would have entered the war in Europe. So you would be OK with that? You would be fine with Hitler clutching Europe to his breast and never letting go? With the United States facing a Nazi empire, with no allies after the British sued for peace, which they would have been forced to do, eventually, if we hadn't been forced by Hitler into the war in Europe?

Man, just when I think I've seen everything, I'm faced with a throw back to the majority of Americans prior to Pearl Harbor, who wanted no part in a European war, even if Western civilization in Europe, and our friends, faced being absorbed into the Nazi empire.

Simply mindboggling.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

what are you talking about? if anything, europe is becoming more and more like america. tell me, what was yesterday's europe like?

 

i don't necessarily disagree with that. but on the scale of altruism, this ranks pretty low.

 

fair enough. although i'm not sure historically what the calculus was for FDR - was it really national interest or was it a recognition of the evil of the Nazi regime? we did ship material aid en masse to Europe before we entered the war and we did let Europe take precedence over Japan even after Pearl Harbor.

 

i don't think you can separate the two. the degree of "evility?? evilness? evilliciousness??" is PART of why we had to get involved. because we couldn't afford for all of europe to fall into this.

 

How old are you? Seriously - are you trying to goad me into some sort of vocabulary Fight Club? Get a life.

Thanks professor.

Oh my god, you got me! What a fool I've been! After all, real wit requires use of such incredibly insightful commentary as "blah blah blah".

And it's your position that is trite, not your lame warrant.

If you would like to continue this discussion, please refrain from being an *******.

 

Seriously, you need to take a break and calm down. I made a reasonable point which you out of the blue labelled as unintelligent (so I think it's obvious who is the *******). If you don't like it then you can respond, presumably, without going off the deep end. This part of the thread isn't much of a discussion since your responses consist wholly of nonsensical insults and no substance - so if you want to disengage please feel free.

 

The U.S. did try to stay out of those two world wars but ended up still having to go in and clean up the mess. If you live in a city that is crime ridden won't you eventually be affected by crime? The civilized world was in complete chaos and it was unavoidable for the U.S. to not get involved. Maybe you would rather be living in a world dominated by Nazi ideology.

If I was a European, I wouldn't like U.S polciy the last five years either. It's not like the Bush administration even remotely acts like the European countries opinions matter.

 

What an ego. Does anybody else think I overreacted here? Insinuating that I don't know what trite means, that I am merely "making lame attempts to look witty", that I am "silly", that I "got up on the wrong side of the bed" - is this somehow acceptable, provided that Hayes is the author? Am I the only one smelling hypocrisy in the air?

If I am wrong, let me know and I'll shut up.

 

And what is today's Europe?

Today's Europe is large economies Great Britain, France, and Germany growing. It is also Eastern European countries such as Slovakia and Estonia coming out of the grips of communism, using liberal trade laws and a free market economy to become the fastest growing economies in Europe. It is the EU (with all its problems) contributing to economic growth and freedom in Europe.

Today's Europe is vastly underrated by Americans, who for some reason seem to have a superiority complex with regards to countries who are often their biggest supporters (see: GB.)

Let's look at the facts:
2 European countries and one European colony have a higher GDP per capita than the United States.
7 European countries have a higher HDI (human development index) than the United States.

I'm just as proud to be American as the next guy, but sometimes we must take off the American colored glasses.

The fact is, Europe is a much better place than it was 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 years ago, and on and on. Perhaps some dont realize is that a more prosperous Europe is NOT a bad thing. Europe is not a 'threat' to the United States, a prosperous Europe means a bigger market for American goods, and it means an influx of European goods to America. Why a successful and booming Europe is not embraced in America, I really do not know.

 

I think most Americans embrace Europe. A minority prefer to cling to the bankrupt policies of the Bush Administration, and attempt to rewrite history while doing so. That's sad and/or pathetic. What is a real bummer is that so many Europeans, understandably, see the US government for what it is. They don't dislike or hate Americans... they just feel that way about the party in power here.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

The country most in danger of instability because of U.S. actions is the U.S.

 

My dislike for Europe has nothing to do with economics.

 

I disagree. Iraq immediately comes to mind. I understand where the pessimistic views of the US come from, but I dont necessarily subscribe to them.

Yes, we have a large deficit (which is getting smaller) and yes, we have a large amount of debt outstanding. But our economy has been growing, jobs have been created, and we are firmly out of recession. The policies of the Bush administration have given more cash to the American people, and while many people gripe that our children will have to carry the burden of Bush's indiscriminate spending, I dont see that happening at all. More money = more taxes paid to government = less defecit. Reagonomics.

Anyways, I think Europe is entirely unsubstantiated in being worried about America. It might be easy for Europeans to blame 7/7 and the Spain bombing on American foreign policy, but they have to recognize that Islamic fundamentalists aren't just targeting the USA, they are targeting all of western culture. Regardless of whether the US occupies Iraq and Afghanistan, Islamic fundamentalists hate the western world.

There are many things that are a greater threat to stability in Europe than the US: namely, their collective economy. If the EU is to work, it cant be so eurocentric, and needs to embrace globalisation (and thus the USA,) not shunt it.

 

What does it have to do with, then?

 

My love for Europe has nothing to do with economics.

It has everything to do with World Cup hottie pictures.

 

I wish we could rate threads in here.

Any thread with the word "evilliciousness" would get at least 5 stars from me.

I'd have to up my rating to 6 for the picture of the world cup girl.

 

You're wrong.

Wow. You think most Europeans like Americans? In my experiences, you are way off. They see us as uncultured, fat, unintelligent, rude, loud, and obnoxious. Funny enough, that's the way a lot of the posters on here see their fellow Americans.

 

Hmm. My experiences have been the exact opposite. With the exception of Paris, I honestly can't think of single place in Europe that I and my American companions weren't treated marvelously; most recently, Ireland. WONDERFUL people that treated the wife and I almost like family in some instances.

Hey, I wonder, you don't suppose that maybe it was just YOU that they saw as uncultured, fat, unintelligent, rude, loud and obnoxious?

 

I will see your list AND add Paris. The people there have always been very nice to me on my visits. People in Spain, Germany, and Italy were as well.

The sad thing is the shapr decrease in the numbers. It would be one thing if they always had a disdain, but that just isn't true. It wasn't the highest during the cold war, but throughout the 90's and even after 2001 the positive numbers were in the 60's most places. Sadly that has dissappeared rather quickly.