Well he definately added a few more moves to his repertoire, his baby hook shot improved, a few more spin moves...all this was a result of playing against Hakeem. But by now he has seen everykind of defense and strategy thrown at him imaginable, and he knows how to play against. Therefore his passing and court vision has improved alot since '95. It's all moot though, Dream's still better. I said people will say Shaq dominated yao, just like they say Hakeem dominated Shaq in '95. Each was simply outplayed. I was pointing out the perception people have of past events and how we as fans need to recognise where players are in their development at that time.
Hakeem could have played any of the front court positions today and no disrespect he would dusted the guys you've listed. Most of today's great front court players (eg the guys you've listed) is nowhere near Shaq's size or strength so it's a big mismatch when Shaq has the ball in the post. The way I see Hakeem in comparison to today's players is he has Ron Artest's lockdown man to man D, Ben Wallace's help defence with faster recovery and more intimidating shot blocking, AK-47's perimeter range on D, greater offensive repetoire than Timmy and a consistent clutch performer that gets results like LBJ (although LBJ is only starting to carve his niche). The only things lacking are a 3 point shot, the media hype and Nowitzki's trips to the line. Although in Hakeem's defence, he would disdain flopping.
There it is! That's the debate-ender right there: TOTAL THREE-POINTERS IN THE NBA FINALS Olajuwon - 1 Shaq - 0 Argument over. Dream wins!
Agreed. Olajuwon is the only center to ever play in the NBA Finals who brings the defensive package, the offensive moves, clutch free throws, and hits 100% of his 3 pointers.
It's funny how that shot has never really been an issue. If Jordan had taken a meaningless last second 3-pointer at the end of a four game sweep he'd have been crucified for it. If any other player who wasn't a scrub had taken that shot it would have been immediately criticized. Most people liken that shot to Rembrandt applying a final stroke to a masterpiece that mere mortals could not see was necessary. I had three separate and distinct impressions and feelings: 1. Before. I saw Dream race up-court (Shaq, how old are you again?) and he was running directly at the the 3-point line. When he got there and stepped back. I thought oh no, Dream don't do it, don't end this historic playoff performance with a CLANK. But he screamed for the ball. 2. During. When he went up I knew he was going to make it. Euphoria, I thought about E, Moses, the other 34's and how this was special. 3. After. Swish. I became sad in a way, because it was an ending. Twelve more hours to celebrate, but I felt it a goodbye of sorts. At least, it was sort of a kiss-off to the NBA, to history and eerily to those who watched him from his freshman year at UofH. It was a statement. He was a guy asking "What haven't I done? Who will come along that does what I do?" Any answers? Russell or Wilt, Kareem, Moses or Shaq shouldn't be in the same sentence. Go ahead, put Dream in the all-time game at the 3 or 2. Think of him as a pre-cursor to TD, KG and everyone else that has no desire to play center full-time. Think of him as a finesse center. Man, small-ball even wasn't an option against Dream despite the old rules. I think any complete-time fan of Dream would admit to being wrong and how stunned we all were at some point about the things he did. Maximum chaos met still unseen artistry. I hate to repeat this but I unearthed a tape from Dream's rookie year against the Lakers. He sat out the last 15 minutes of the first half in foul trouble. I think he had 6 points and 2 rbs and Kareem was white-hot. When I was watching the video I was remembering all the things that I remembered about that year when fans were either questioning or downright skeptical about Olajuwon's evolution. That third quarter defied my memory and is the best example I know of how Dream's statistics are a joke. He controlled games in the Jordan era in ways no one else did. There was an infamous interview with Dream when everybody knew he was probably going to be the all-time shot blocker (late 80's?) and he said he intended to put that record "out of reach". He was asked about if he thought he'd be able to have more than Russell and Wilt and frikkin' Kareem actually did. He was still in pre-religion devoutness then, but all he said was "I usually have have twice as many blocks that I get credit for". Even in his glory days the Post and the Chronicle would easily get quotes from him about the subject. Ok, this is my fourth off-season here, I can't win this debate and a there's always a couple highly intelligent heart-in-the right-place guys that always drive me crazy that I don't want to attack any more than I have. R2K, or anybody else that has a decent computer and a little knowledge e-mail me: declan32001@yahoo.com. I want this "fair" quality tape (meaning not good) out in the collective memory. A rookie, a foul machine, a supposed "pup", my favorite athlete of all-time that I met in college and think whose game I know so well blew me away on tape. No Dreamshake, rudimentary (for him) spin moves, Ralph does a couple of things that you may not have seen since (PAIN) and Lionel Hollins steals the show. But the story was Dream, and all you stat guys that aren't hung up about long-range bad shots need to see this. Oohh, my first pro-JVG statement I've made this year.
Shaq has repeatedly said on his own that Hakeem is the best center of all time..if shaq is saying that, then where is the debate?
the only catagory shaq exceeds Da Dream is Weight... nothing else... Dream was untouchable .....UNTOUCHABLE! and played them lika clowns!
^it didnt sound like that during shaq's interview to the media yesterday. it sounded like he wanted to be considered the best ever btw, i think wilbon and jackson ranked shaq behind hakeem last night on the finals pre game show. their rankings both had russell, wilt, hakeem, and then shaq. interesting that kareem was ranked 5th on their list.
Wilbon didn't even mention Dream initially. Mark Jackson gave his rankings with Dream 3rd, and Wilbon was like "I agree". In his interview Shaq listed himself after Russell and Wilt.
Kenny Smith was just on ESPN radio with Dan Patrick (DP rates Olajuwon 2nd in Centers all-time after Abdul-Jabbar) and he puts O'neal ABOVE Dream!! Basically said that no one was better for those two years but for a career that O'neal was better. Ugh.
hakeem cant hit his FT's which enable him to stay affective down the stretch...last night was a clear case why shaq is not better than hakeem...
Hakeem has 3X as many steals, 1,000+ more blocks, 1000+ more rebounds, and 100 more assist in his 14th year (Shaq 14th season now) no ...thats why hakeem is better than shaq
Great post. Dream never lost his ability to surprise. He did it at UH, from the beginning of his career with the Rockets, and was still having me open-mouthed in wonder, years later, when he raped and pillaged a truly excellent center at the top of his game, the Admiral. You can trot out every cliché in the book, and they fail to do him justice. The guy kicked Ralph out of the 5 spot! If you'd seen Sampson play, the fact that this kid, who picked a basketball up for the first time a few years before, could come in and push him into another position is simply incredible. If Ralph had stayed healthy, he would have been in the Hall of Fame, for sure. Damn, we've all been so lucky! This is a fun read: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2002/then_now/flashbacks/sampson_121779/
I heard that. Like you said -- DP was gushing all over Dream. He also expressly disagreed with Smith. It's a fun debate, like DP said, Dream was dominant in all aspects of the game.
Shaq at any age couldn't guard Hakeem at his peak. Shaq was in awe of Hakeem during those Finals. You could see it on his face. He never had someone take it right to him like that before and he actually played pretty well if I remember correctly. I think the younger Hakeem might have been able to guard Shaq at his peak. There might have been a fight or two though...
Hakeem was bar none the better center and if John Lucas hadn't been the Houston connection for George Jung that 1986 team had the makings of a dynasty for years to come. The only real thing Shaq has going for him is his size. Otherwise he cannot shoot FT, he is slow, and does not have much of an offensive game other then his little baby hook and dunking. He is a beast but nowhere near the caliber of player tha Hakeem was IMHO.
Wow, Deckard that Sampson article was a real find. So few people really remember. An extreme thank you for this though: Damn, we've all been so lucky! I think most of us have some angst built up but ... yeah, how lucky we all were. I promise to remember that more that from now on.
ESPN Classic is running the Final game of the Orlando/Houston Finals earliy Sunday morning. First will be Game 7 vs the knicks, the game 4 vs Orlando.
