You people showing a low life street mentality should realize that this forum is about the Rockets and all subjects appertaining to them. It is not a forum for all the personal insults and low life expressions which have been uttered. Each poster is entitled to his own opinion and beliefs and we as members of this fine forum should respect such opinions which are not held by ourselves. We can argue against one another in a friendly mannor but RESPECT must be the GUIDE to everything that we express.
Ben Wallace sucks....7 points and 7 rebounds today.....how did he make the 2nd all nba team? he didn't even do his job...which is just rebounding and blocking and allowed Shaq to rape him.
In a weird way I am kind of glad to see shaq succeed in these playoffs, and play to vintage form. If Shaq wins the title this year and plays to form, next year there will be no excuses when Yao plays him. They will not be able to rely as heavily on the whole "shaq is washed up" cop out. And finally it makes me feel good about the Rockets chances if the dynamic duo of Shaq and Wade can take it to all these other teams, because the Yao and Tracy combo is equal if not a close second when healthy.
Haven't been watching the playoffs... But, are you telling me, with this statement, that Antoine has been playing like Bogans... and Jason Williams has been playing like Rafer... and that Haslem has been playing like one of J-Ho/Swift.. in this postseason..?
No, but I'm guessing he's telling you that with Yao & T-Mac healthy, they're more than make up for Bogans, Rafer, and Howard/Swift's negativities.
Yao & Tracy can only be truly effective with quality player in the supporting roles. Yao will forever be double and tripple teamed till we have three others that can put the ball in the basket when they get an open shot. our present supporting players are past it or are just not able to meet the required standards for a quality team.A major remake will take several seasons.
Who ever said he played the full 82game season keep arguin about stuff that is irrelevant because it only shows your too scared to quote what I actually said. Dear god have you no sense of logic? In the games miller played they were 36-21 good for a winning & of 63% down to 56%, thats a pretty steep drop. Because Webber came back you ditz, and Adelman made the mistake of tryin to get him back into the rotation which in effect ruined their season and cost them the division title. What? You must really think I can read minds but sadly I cant do it so next time you want to point something out atleast have the balls to directly quote what I said. Otherwise its only you who knows what your talkin about. Only me? Go to the Kings fan forum ask them whos the catalyst of their offense they all said bibby and artest. Before the trade they all said Miller and Bibby. When you aquire different players you run an offense thats suited to their capabilities. Seriously quit arguin about **** you know nothing about. The offense is ran through them thus they are the catalyst. You speak of Ron Artest like you know his game, hes not a bad playmaker and the fact of the matter is hes a handfull on the lowblock and can attract alot of defensive attention which he uses to create scoring oppertunities for his teammates. It doesnt meen Brad was a bad playmaker it just meens his playmaking abilities were greatly diminished now that the kings no longer had Peja who could space the floor and create cutting lanes for the rest of the kings. Calm down guy and use your head. You would see things alot clearer if you thought your post through. And your a coward. So because C-Webb came back its suppose to discredit Brad? Nice logic you got there. He was a catalyst in the 57 games he started. Thats why I gave you a larger sample size and yet you still b****ed about the results. Its not about their all nba team its about whos the better defender or have you forgotten? Please show me the post where you quoted my PER post? Thats all I said you didnt directly quote it because you had nothing to say on it. They are based on overall performance, especially with bigmen, if your not winning your not makin 1st team. Thats why you lied about Yao not bein in foul trouble? It still doesnt change the fact that he couldnt stay on the floor against the kings and that the opposing teams center couldnt stay on the floor against the heat. Never once did I mention anything about Shaq playin minimal minutes against them. You just love to point out the irrelevant dont you. Read it again. Yao could stay on the floor against the Kings and Brad couldnt stay on the floor against the Heat. Heres where your argument falls apart. Brad Miller played 41 minutes in the game shaq missed The next game Brad played 24 minutes and commited 5 fouls, Shaqs personal fouls were not drawn by Brad Miller they were a couple offensive and in 28 minutes scored 27 pts the damage was done and the heat won by 20. Yao on the other hand was in constant foul trouble and did not get Brad into foul trouble. So let me say it again so it can be clear for you. Yao couldnt stay on the floor and Shaq made it so Brad couldnt stay on the floor. OK Ill explain it very slowly. In fact Ill do it 1 game at a time Ive allready showed you Shaq played 28 minutes compared to Brads 24. Yao on the other hand played 25 minutes in game 1 and Brad played 41 Game 2 Yao played 35 Brad played 38. Game 3 Yao played 35 Brad played 42. So you see Yao could not stay on the floor long enough whereas Brad couldnt stay on the floor long enough against the heat. Now do you see why I laugh at you? No cherry pickin was done you clown, look at the list of offensive centers that both Yao and Shaq have played and youll have your answer. They were both matched up against only Brad and Z. The rest were not offensive threats. Its irrelevant when looking at whos the better man defender? Damn your dumber than I thought. Stop repeating the same jibberish Yea which is why they play less against Shaq and more against Yao, Shaq is just better at keepin Brad and Z off the court. Thats all Ive been sayin and yet you find it stupid? Damn dog your lookin dumber with each post. Your only makin yourself look bad, seriously you dont quote me directly because it would make your argument look even more flawed. What about Dekes game he made Brad less effective so they played him less. My stuff is sorted out its you who is confused. Who said anything about what Deke allowed over the season? Please do try to stay on topic moron we are talkin about Shaq and Yao and what they allowed over the course of an entire season in which case Shaq allowed less. Its inapporopriate to show what they allowed against 1 player their whole career? So when Yaos and Shaq career head 2 head stats are shown and they are in favor of Yao people could just throw them out and say nah Yao didnt outplay Shaq, Shaq just didnt need to stop him? Again your lookin dumber with each and every word. Because there are others who have debated intelligently, and because the tools who have sided with you were no where to be seen once I went back on them. They have nothing to say so if they are your backup they are as dumbwitted as you are. So far I have shot down everything youve said. Even exposed you for a liar. I dont know about you but anyone who has to LIE to prove a point is getting OWNED I can obviously read, and your obviously a liar and a flamer. Sounds like a loser to me Yes there you have it, made them better. Shaqs defenders have made him a better defender and better than Yao this year. Its not like Shaq is nothing without them hes makin them better defenders as well. I know Yao allowed more points than Shaq. I dont know where you got Deke from but the points allowed are done per48 minutes so they would somewhat make up for Dekes relatively low amount of minutes per game. So far youve lied, refused to quote me directly. How am I getting Owned when your too scared to even argue correctly? OK Then I guess Ive won, if your not debating in favor of Yao then there is no one to debate with. How can I run out of arguments when the ones Ive chosen still stand? Yao allowed more points, a higher PER. And hes been lit up more times than a christmas tree when compared to Shaq. So yea Shaqs had a better defensive year. Forget that he blocked more shots than Yao. Shaq had the better year thus hes made 1st team. I dont know what your getting at Ive made my point clear. Shaqs had the better year. Their offensive statistics are on par, their rebounding and shot blocking statistics are on par, only Shaq has the huge edge in wins. If you cant understand that you dont understand basketball. So then why isnt KG on the list? Look I know you hold a high oppinion of yourself but just because you say it doesnt make it true. All NBA teams are based on whos had the most succesfull season. It shows you little use for common sense. Shaq played more against Brad, Brad played more against Yao thats what Ive been tryin to tell you this whole time. Yet you use irrelevant stats. How does their foul rate disprove that Yao cant stay on the floor enough against Brad? READ ABOVE if your still confused. SHAQ PLAYED MORE AGAINST BRAD BRAD PLAYED MORE AGAINST YAO THUS YAO COULDNT STAY ON THE FLOOR LONG ENOUGH Are you still confused? Fraud No Im pretty sure they are in the argument of Yao allowing more pts to opposing team center. Of course they dont, I guess they just keep career stats for the **** of keeping them. Now you know your getting owned. How does this make any sense? The sample size may be small for them but its quite large for Shaq and Yao. And I dont know of ANY center 2 or 3rd string to allow 0pts so your pretty much lying again in an attempt to prove your flawed argument. The minutes are accounted for by using the per 48 minutes allowed, which you would know if you actually checked the statistics. KG Anyone? Learn about the NBA, they are based on several things. HEALTH STATS TEAM SUCCESS They were on par for all but one and guess which one that is. Ass whipping? You cant even do that right, if you want an example of an ass whipping re-read this post. Try harder next time man your gettin too predictable
I dont know why I should show any respect to a guy who admitted to not showin respect to anyone who disagrees with him.
Not necessarily, I think we can find the Jon Barrys and Bobby Suras of the league for cheap. All we need is someone to b****slap JVG and take away his Knicks loving mentality.
If anything, this thread proves that any topic can be argued both ways and the debate will be endless if both sides refuse to back down.
Trust me it would be over alot more quickly if he were to directly quote me but hed much rather make up what I said and lie about things. Heres a quick rundown of what this endless discussion is about. I argue that Yao couldnt stay on the floor long enough he argues he stayed on the floor longer than Shaq. But thats not the point, point is Shaq played long enough because of the fact he played more minutes than Brad and got them into foul trouble alot more quickly than Yao did to Brad. And that argument only came out because he whined about Brad averaging high numbers against Yao because he played more minutes. When thats partly the reason Shaq was a better defender against them. You cant score if your not on the floor. He says I cherry pick I say I chose the only available offensive centers available and he has yet to name other offensive centers that both Yao and Shaq have matched up with. He says Shaq gets lit up against any other center outside of Brad and Z I said Yao allowed more pts per 48 against the league. He says the sample size was too small so I showed him a larger scale and he says they are irrelevant because its not based on this year. When the point of me giving him a larger sample size is to show that this doesnt just happen this year but throughout the course of their careers. If its an ongoing thing how can you say its a coincidence? He lied about Yao not bein in foul trouble and only played 24 minutes because it was a blowout despite the lead never bein greater than 10. Hes not even arguin in favor of Yao hes arguin for the simple fact that he likes to flame. Now tell me why would I give in to this nonsense. All ive been sayin is Yao wasnt 1st team because he and Shaq have played too similar to overlook the winner. But he insists that all nba is strictly about individual stats. But it has never been this way, its about whos had the most succesfull season all things considered. Health Stats Team Success
Wow, you are an even bigger moron than I thought: 1. Afraid to quote you directly? Ha. How about I tell you exactly what I've responded to. I said that in 2003-04, the Kings did pretty well without Miller than when he was injured. You responded, when did Miller get injured? Now see here, I actually checked, he did not exactly have 10 games worth of DNP-coach's decision now did he? So if he didn't get injured (as you implied) and he didn't sit that many games due to coaches decision, where the hell did he go? Did he pull a Stevie and miss the team flight to pick up a suit or did he get kidnapped as in Celtic Pride? The really sad thing is, you are too stupid to even that you contradict yourself. 2. That's actually pretty funny. Now tell me, why is it when you decided to exaggerate Miller's effect, you decided to include those games in which not only Miller was missing, but a slew of several other Kings players? Why, if you really wanted to prove how "important" Miller is, did you not simply single out the games in which he was the only Kings player missing? 3. For 20 games? That's hilarious. Only a moron like you would think that. I'm guessing that Adelman has a hole in his head and doesn't realize in 20 regular season games and couple playoff games that Webber wasn't cutting it right? You do realize of course that Webber was outplaying Miller in every statistical category except assists right? Certainly, after coming off injury, it affects his play. It certainly negatively impacted the Kings chemistry. But you know why Adelman kept playing CWebb? Because he was once a SUPERSTAR whereas Brad Miller was NEVER more than a ROLEPLAYER. If CWebb could play to his previous level, it would benefit the Kings far more than Miller EVER could. This is why Adelman plays CWebb. If Miller was really the "catalyst" as in your moronic claim, he ain't comin' off the bench any way you slice it. At the worst you let him start over Vlade, who was already slowing down. Really, what does it tell you about Brad Miller when he can't wrestle the starting position from a washed up Vlade Divac? 4. So you are suggesting that the morons at ESPN DO know what Adelman thinks? Good. Make sure to tell JVG that when he's thinking the next time we play them. Thanks in advance. 5. So let's count: before, Vlade, Bibby, Miller; now Bibby, Miller, Artest. Hell, throw in Bobby Jackson off the bench that makes 4. Does that mean the Kings had 4 playmakers? Must be good when 60% of your starting line up are "catalysts" right? Given the above, only a moron such as yourself would suggest that one play (Miller at that) is the catalyst and not the Kings system. 6. Ron Artest is a good playmaker? Wow. Maybe our definition of "playmaking" is different. However, Ron Artest does have one thing that Brad Miller will never have. He can create his own shot. He can drive to the basket. Or maybe that's what you meant by "playmaking." 7. It doesn't discredit Brad Miller as a "catalyst" that he doesn't get to start, even over an old Vlade Divac? 8. This part is actually funny. Watching wiggle and twitch to avoid the question. Do the following: a) Read the thread title b) Find out what this thread is about (hint, the all NBA teams) c) Read my post above on how who being the better defender is only referring THIS YEAR because the topic in question is the All NBA Teams THIS YEAR. d) Resume hiding your head in a sack like a moron who just got owned and keep dodging the question. 9. Of course. Obviously it's based on winning right? This part is actually funny. Let's compare the Rockets and the Heat. Since Yao and Shaq are the factors being compared, let's take them out. Obviously TMac is better than Dwayne Wade, too bad he's been injured. Who's our next best player? I say Rafer Alston. Let's compare him to the Heat players. Is he better than Zo? No? How about white chocolate? No? Maybe Fatoine? No? Posey? Posey would be pretty good in our uniform right now wouldn't he? Too bad he asked for too much money. Can we even say positively that Rafer Alston is better than Udonis Haslem? Why bother selecting the All NBA teams? Just select that top 3 teams in the NBA. That's fair. 10. You can't really be this stupid. I've already pointed out that Yao plays the SAME number of minutes (1 more actually) against Miller and Z than he does against anybody AND he fouls less than Shaq. That alone tosses out your moronic argument that Yao can't stay on the floor against the opposing teams' 5's. Yet you feel the need to further embarrass yourself and make yourself look like a moron. Truly humourous. 11. Really, read the above (that'll be point 10) and tell me who got in more foul trouble against Miller and Z. The funny part is, had Shaq played as minutes as Yao, in games where Yao got in foul trouble, Shaq would have fouled out. I've run out of things to describe your stupidity because I've never ran into such idiocy. 12. OK, I'll do it VERY SLOWLY for you. Yao AVERAGES less minutes against Miller so he is EXPECTED to play less than Miller. Even teachers of the braindead can't make it simpler than that. Furthermore, if Shaq played the same minutes as Yao did against Miller (25, 35, 35), he would have gotten 3.6 (round off to 4), 5.04 (5), 5.04 (5), which is THE SAME (HIGHER actually) than Yao got. Furthermore, I find it funny that you conveniently left out foul trouble against Z when you found out it goes against your argument. If Shaq played 43 minutes again Z like Yao did, he would have fouled out. Please do laugh at me, cuz everybody else is laughing at the moron (that'll be you) that can't do simple math. Tell me, did you even graduate elementary school? 13. Brad Miller an offensive centre? HA. Even in his best season he never averaged 16PPG (15 this year). But alright, let's assume he is. In that case he is about a 1.5PPG better than the likes of Eddy the bust Curry and Nenad freakin' Kristic. And this is not considering Chris Bosh, who actually plays the 5 in Toronto. That Miller, wooooo, one helluva offensive talent there. 14. The more you repeat this line the more you embarrass yourself. Read point 8 above. 15. Oh I see, so you are implying that teams don't double/triple team Yao and front him. That shows about how many games you've watched. 16. Really, grow a brain, then look up statistical significance. Or take my post above and agree Michael Olowokandi is the best defensive 5 in the league this year. 17. Does this even matter? Based on your moronic logic, Kandiman is clearly the best defensive 5 in the league this year. 18. Inappropriate because the All NBA team is based on THIS YEAR. There should be a "read post 8 above" key on my keyboard especially reserved for morons like you. 19. Ha ha ha. That's hilarious. So far the only moron that has managed to agree with you is RocketMac. Obviously everybody on this board is dimwitted. Please enlighten us further with your knowledge on how 0.122 is greater than 0.144. 20. Too bad Shaq's better teammates didn't make him better than Yao offensively this year now has he? Why bother dropping the offensive side of the equation? 21. HA HA HA. You telling me that I refuse to answer correctly? This is hilarious. Tell us again how because Yao got in 0.122 fouls a minute and Shaq 0.144, he got in more foul trouble against Miller and Z than Shaq. 22. Oh of course, let's forget that Yao scored more points. There you have it. Obviously you can't make an argument without cherry picking. 23. Shaq's TEAM had a better year based on the fact that he had a BETTER TEAM. If you can't understand that, you are a... well, I guess I can just drop this part. Even if you do understand this part you are still a moron. 24. So why is Kobe on the list ahead of Billups? 25. And let me state it very clearly to you once again. Shaq WOULD have fouled out before Yao did against Miller and Z. Are you still confused, moron? 26. They keep career stats for CAREER comparisons. Morons like you use them for comparisons THIS YEAR. 27. I don't recall saying 2nd string centres so you just pulled another strawman there. As for 3rd stringers, I believe it's called a hyperbole. The same point still stand. I'm also sure that even many 3rd stringers played more against Miller and Z than Deke. Also, apparently sample size wasn't an issue when you pulled your Deke defended Miller and kept him out of the paint better than Yao bullsh1t. 28. This point is too stupid I don't even know how to respond. Grow a brain, learn about arithmetic mean then come back to me. 2 year olds understand more about stats than you do. 29. Health, stats, team success. Oops, forgot something did we? Now what is it again? Hmmmmmm. Good and sucky teams? I see that after my whipping, you are not only getting red in the ass, but in the face too. Really, actually bother to learn something something about math, statistics, logic. That way, instead of looking like a braindead imbecile, you merely have to look like a moron.
Actually it would end a lot quicker if you actually have a brain (and therefore can brain a logical argument)... strawman.
What exactly are you two arguing about? Sheesh, the entire content of your posts seems to be nothing but name calling. Just because you've posted over 2000 times on the board, that doesn't give you license to act like an ass. And your arguments lose credibility when you do so.
If the argument is still on who's the better defender between Yao and Shaq, there's no definite answer. Rocket's team defense with Yao was much better than Miami's team defense with Shaq, but that alone doesn't prove anything. Shaq's probably a better man-defender and definitely a better shot blocker. Yao isn't as lazy guarding the pick and rolls, but his lack of foot speed probably doesn't give him much of an edge in that area. Same on jumping out to contest face up jump shooters.
