Exactly. It's almost a guarantee that he's going to be a defensive beast, so I'm looking at his offensive production simply as a bonus. How soon some people forget just how horrible our perimeter defense has been recently. Some will say that Carney can be just as good on defense, and that's where I look at their personalities to come to a final conclusion. Brewer is a guy that will do the dirty work, whatever it takes to win. Carney is a guy that's known to disappear completely when his shot isn't falling. Maybe you can fix that with coaching, but after 4 years in college I'm not counting on it.
Good point. Defense is all about attitude. One point about attitude though is a player can change it in a flash like McGrady did in 2004-2005. Still, if you can't get it together at Memphis, you gonna get it together here?
My one concern with drafting Brewer is our team using him as a PG. There have been many articles that state that he is a PG. I don't want our team to use him at PG, I plan on using him at SG.
Hey, I went to undergrad in Arkansas and I'm now a law student at the U of A. Ronnie Brewer, imo, is one of those guys who is a very good college player but his game doesn't really intrigue me as a pro prosect. I haven't seen every one of his games over the past few years, but I have been to a few Razorback games in the past two years, including the NCAAs this year. Also, I watch quite a few games that are on local tv in Arkansas. Brewer is definitely a slasher type player that should get most of his points from close range. Unforunately, he tends to fall in love with the jump shot and poor three pointers. He has a combination of a poor outside shot and poor shot selection, not exactly a desirable combination. If you are an advocate of drafting this guy with the hope that he might be able to consistently hit the outside shot, or, hell, even the mid-range shot, I think you are way off base. Ronnie only shot 44% from the field and 33% from 3-pt territory despite taking the 2nd most three point attempts on the team last season. If you want to draft Brewer because you think the team needs someone that can handle the ball fairly well, is an excellent slasher, and could turn into a defensive stopper, then you aren't off base. Also, to the guy that talked about Carney disappearing in big games, Brewer got shut down on the offensive end by BUCKNELL in the NCAAs. Brewer was 3-9 FG and 1-3 3pt against them.
Read a few posts up and you'll see what I expect out of Brewer. I see his scoring as icing on the cake and any outside shooting as a big freaking cherry on top. Basically I see a Josh Howard-esque type of contribution, with more ball handling. I don't believe that's off base. I just don't want people thinking he's a horrible shooter in the mold of Ryan Bowen. I don't think anyone would really make a big deal out of his shooting in the first place if he didn't have strange form. That's all I'm saying.
If Brewer does PG things while playing the 2 (and guarded by the opposition's 2), I see that as a plus.
Not to be rude, but that's your argument? The guy had an off shooting night (still scored 14 points on only 9 FGA's) but also added 5 rebounds, 5 assists, and 2 steals. If 14/5/5/2 is getting shut down then sign him up. In fact, in every single game where he had a bad scoring night, he picked up slack considerably in at least one other category and his team won every time... 12pts 4rebs 2asts 5stls 2blks 9pts 11rebs 1asts 1stls 1blks 10pts 4rebs 7asts 9pts 5rebs 9asts 1stls 1blk The one exception to the rule was a game against Texas-PA where he went 1-7 from the field, but they won in a blowout 66-38 anyway and as a result he played a season low 21 minutes. My point is that everyone has bad scoring nights, but that doesn't mean you can't help your team in other ways. Go look at Carney's box scores. He doesn't have the complementary stats that say "I deserve minutes when my shot isn't falling because I can help you win in other ways". I'm not a huge stat w**** or anything, but they're certainly not meaningless.
How does Brewere and his Arkansas career match up against that other tall, erstwhile Razorback point guard Joe Johnson-- who was much coveted by the Rockets as I recall...
I'm kinda torn between Carney and Brewer but I'm leaning towards Brewer. I like that Carney has slightly better physical talents, but frankly, a player who has a reputation for not caring and disappearing from games TERRIFIES me. Stromile Swift, anyone? What's really stuck out in my mind is that thread about how Carney tore up in workouts, and then did jack nothing once 2-on-2s started. I'm sure Ager can play some good D, but gimme a break... have a little more toughness than that.
I've never seen either Carnery nor Brewer play (I have little interest for college basketball), so I have a few questions/points: 1. A few have mentioned a knock on Brewer being that he might be a point guard. I'm confused. If he has point guard skills, how is that anything but a positive? You can just play him at the 2 with those same point guard skills. 2. Carney has Stromile Swift written all over him. No playmaking ability and got torn up in the 2 on 2? Lack of passion? The Carney supporters will have to do a better job selling him to convince me. 3. Why is Brewer's form such a problem? Is it that bad? It certainly can't be worse than Shawn Marion's, can it? Like I said, I haven't seen him play, but I'm liking everything I'm reading about him, especially the intensity. This team badly needs some intensity right now. 4. My absolute wet dream would be Rudy Gay somehow falling and us putting him at at the '4' with his 6'9 length ala Shawn Marion. Realistically, I want Brewer.
Yep i've read a few more mocks and articles, i wouldn't be dissapointed if we got Brewer, i like Carney also. Either way.
cabbage, I'll comment on shooting form. The key to being a successful shooter (especially in the NBA) is having a consistent repeatable form on every shot. Whether it's a wide open set shot, a turnaround to the right or to the left, an on the run stop and pop, repeating the same exact form each time is the key to success. If you play golf, it's the 100% exact concept as with a golf swing. If you look at successful NBA shooters, the vast majority of them have a very smooth form that makes shooting look very easy. Good NBA shooters with weird form are rare exceptions. I'm not an NBA GM, but from my observation most college scorers with weird shooting forms end up having their shot crumbling under NBA speed and pressure. Yes, there are players like Shawn Marion but they are the rare exception. Therefore, if you are comparing draft prospects for perimeter players, shooting form is one consideration. There are a lot of high school players who suddenly can't shoot when play at the college level. The same thing happens from college to NBA. Good shooting from minimizes the chances of this happening. One reason I have such a hard time gaining confidence in Luther is his strange shooting form. He goes from swishing 2-3 sweet shots to throwing 5-6 awful bricks in a row way too often for me and I think his bizzare form is the major reason.
Since basketball is a 5 on 5 sport, I don't really like using a 2 on 2 game to determine whether a player will be good in the NBA. 2 on 2 is going to basically be a 1 on 1 showcase, in which some players are obviously going to be better than another. Since we don't need a player to get 1 on 1 (except for TMac and Yao) I just want to see a player that can knock down a jumpshot and play off of our stars. Brewer had a waterslide accident when he was young. I personally haven't seen it, but supposedly he has a piece of bone that protrudes from his tricep. Draftexpress says he can't fully extend his right elbow. Like you said, Marion has some of the worst form in the NBA but he shoots well. Brewer hit 19 of 25 threes today, but then again, Boki hit 23 of 25!! But you just admitted you've never seen them play. It's really hard to make a sound decision based on reading the posts on this board. I'd be happy with both of these guys but Carney seems like he has a better shot of being a star player like Jason Richardson or Richard Jefferson. Clutch's 2006 prospect profiles are really good IMO.
Brewer is not as good as Joe Johnson. Joe was a an offensive dynamo even in college. Brewer, however, is a better basketball player than Rodney Carney. Rodney Carney looks the part of a good basketball player but he drifts, coasts, and loafs. Brewer is full out, all the time. Carney cannot handle the rock well especially for a SG. Brewer will have above average handles for an NBA SG. Carney, although more athletic, does not have the lateral quickness. Carney will struggle to keep NBA SGs in front of him. Brewer's combination of quickness and long arms will enable him to defend NBA PGs, Sgs and SFs. As a Memphis Grizzlies fan, I hope you guys do select Rodney Carney.
I think Tyrus Thomas really looks like a stromile swift clone, not so much Rodney Carney. Personally,I would really like Rudy Gay at the 3 and move Tmac back to the 2. Gay could be a very good all around player for us a the 3, sort of a much more talented version of Josh Howard or Tayshaun Prince. Hopefully he'll fall to #8, if not I would probably go with Carney. Also, I still think Stromile can still be our PF if JVG justs gives him the minutes and lets him a play a little. Juwan Howard cannot see significant time on this team next year. He is old and slow and can't even those mid range jumpers anymore. If Stromile can play well and you add a player like Rudy Gay you could have a dominant starting 5 with no holes who could easily win 55 or 60 games. 06-07 Rockets Starters C Yao Ming - dominating, unguardable when healthy last year. Potential to put up about at least 25 and 12 every night and have a possible MVP type season. PF - Stromile Swift - if he would play up to his potential he could be great for this team. He's young, got good size, athletic, jumps through the roof, has midrange shooting ability. He may excel next year palying a full year with Tracy, Rafer, Yao and a new SG, plus getting more minutes and opportunities. SF- Rudy Gay - a versatile player who is 6'8'' and very athletic, can guard 3s or 2s or small 4s. He rebounds well goes to the basket and could shoot as well. He would be the perfect third option on the Rockets. SG - Tracy McGrady - missing most of last year I think a lot of people around the league and fans forgot how good this guy is when healthy, one of the top 3 players in the league along with LeBron and DWade. He can take it to the basket and finish as good as anybody. He can light it up from anywhere on the court, draws fouls, rebounds, a great passer and can guard 2s 3s or 4s as good as anybody. He is a lethal scorer and can shut down Dirk Nowitzki for 7 games. PG - Rafer Alston - missed alot of time last year as well. When he was in there with T-Mac and Yao he was putting up double doubles every night. He can run the show and can also hit the open 3 and penetrate a little and is a decent defender. My bench: Luther Head Chuck Hayes Bob Sura Mutombo Howard
So what you're saying is that you'd like to see how Carney responds in the 2-man game with Yao or TMac, which is exactly why the 2-on-2 drills are so important. Realize that Carney isn't going to morph into Matt Maloney, bringing the ball up (especially since he can't dribble the ball - absolutely inexcusable for an NBA wing) & spotting up for 3s, he has to how he can do much more in a half-court game against NBA defenders. If he's struggling in workouts, just imagine what's going to happen in the real games. If you're drafting Carney, you're drafting a MAJOR project, simple as that. No offense, but the Rockets should pass on Carney.
eh? There's nothing wrong with Luther's shot. It only looks different from others because it's strictly from the side of his head. It terms of form, he has a very nice shot. He keeps his elbow in, he extends his arm high and follows through with a good flick of his wrist. He may be a little bit of a streaky shooter, but he is a good shooter none-the-less.
