Tell me, did you actually bother to watch that game, or any game for that matter? That was the game in which it was pick the poison for us. Either have Yao defend the paint and let Miller have his 12 footers or stick on Miller and let Bonzi Wells own us. Reef was going off as well. Seriously, we were lucky Peja choked that game or it would have been ugly. But know what, despite all that, guess what, we won the game by 9 points. It was over with 8 minutes left (which partially explains Yao's low number of minutes). If the scrubs didn't make it respectable for the Kings, it would have been a blowout. The fact that you don't know this merely shows that you NEVER watched that game. What a shocker huh?
Seriously, even you can't possibly be this stupid. Know what Yao averaged for the season against Miller and Z? About 35 minutes. Know what Yao averaged over the season? A hair over 34 minutes. Know what Miller averged over the season? 37 minutes. So it is expected that Yao play fewer minutes than Miller does. Only a moron such as yourself suggest Miller and Z somehow managed to put Yao in foul trouble when stats show the other way around. And the only reason you think I'm contradicting myself (considering all of the above) is because you have a hole in your head.
I don't even know why I am bothering to respond to this moronic post. From the length of this post, you just wasted about 5 minutes to further prove that you are a moron. Like I said, show me first how past years' stats are relevant in THIS YEAR's all NBA teams.
So I guess his assist jumping from 2 to 6 is not a telling stat of him having the offense ran through him. At one point he was leading the team in assist. And the argument isnt whether he was doin it better than Vlade. And there you go again tryin to discredit players by taking away what makes them effective. Why do you feel the need to back up such dumb arguments? Hey dumbass I think my point was clear, we are no longer talking about All-Nba teams, please show me where I said career stats had anything to do with him bein more deserving of 1st team, we are debating on which is the better man defender. Why do you have so many memory lapses? Dog you cant be serious SHOW ME WHERE I SAID YOU EDIT YOUR POSTS? I never once mentioned anything about you editing your posts I said Im spamming because I CANT EDIT MY OWN POST Yea so wheres the list (complete with statistical evidence)? And sorry I have other sites that sort the centers they matched up with complete with matchups from every year. Again with the contradictions, if Im a moron and you hate waisting time on them why have you kept this discussion up? Im just tryin to let you know if you want to debate this is the way to do it. OK You allready answer this question yet you felt the need to quote my other post regarding the same issue. I thought you didnt waiste time on me? But since you took the time Ill take the time to show you a previous post. Seein as how youve been reading my posts Im sure you couldnt have missed this one? YET you still ask the same question thats allready been answer. Ive tivod every rocket game. Including every game against Sacramento. And I would have you know in the game Yao missed Deke held it down like it was 1998. Brad only managed like 10 points. And considering we didnt have Tmac Yao or Stro the game was very close and competitive throughout. Thats the beauty of having a bigman who can shoot, he stretches the defense. Its a hard cover for Yao but regardless of how it happened he got torched. I dont know if Id call it a blowout, even though we were in controll for most of the game its not like we were up 20 and had the advantage of resting Yao, at the 8 minute mark we were up 7 hardly a blowout. Let me get this straight its ok for Brad to avg 4 minutes more against the Rockets but for Yao its expected that he play under his avg against the Kings? Minutes are a game time situation and minute per game are reflective over a course of 82 games, it has very little to do with whats expected in a certain game. Yao has avg 40+ minutes against the Indiana, Cleveland, Philly, San Antonio. Would you then argue its expected he play more minutes than Tim Duncan despite avg a lower minutes per game? Also I never once said that they got him into foul trouble I said Shaq got his opponants into foul trouble and that Yao couldnt stay on the floor for whatever reason. Its not like hes not capable of bein out there. OK so youve responded to all of my post including 3 that revolves around the same issue but for some reason you managed to miss this post Is it because it answers your question of what his defensive stance has to do with this year? Well last time I checked those are statistics of the 05-06 season so there you have it. You seem to be easily confused so let me make myself clear. I wasnt using those statistics to prove that Shaq was more worthy of 1st team, we were debating on who is the better man defender. If you want to argue about why Shaq was on 1st team all you have to do is look at their statistics and wins and the answer becomes clear that they have played too similar to look past the huge edge Shaq had in wins. I will say this had Yao avg the numbers he was finishing with in the 2nd half of the season there couldve been an argument for 1st team.
No those remarks were just haters tryin to prove that Ben should be 2nd team over yao by belittling his defense.
First, I remember you were the one trying to BELITTLE YAO's defense. B.Miller may be a better passer than YAO. He always sits on high-post area, either sends a cutter or throws the ball to a open 3 pointer. It's very effective weapon for SAC, especially when playing with YAO, since out PF is so slow on rotation. SHAQ doesn't have this problem because his PF is very quick and can cover the spot for him. Saying SAC offense run through B.Miller is too much.
Sayin he wasnt a better defender than Shaq isnt belittling his defense. The people who belittled his defense were talk **** about it by sayin hes a joke and **** like that. But I just reasoned he didnt have a better year defensively than Shaq. But neither are slouches.
after taking my precious time thoroughly reading this thread, with its wisecracks, name calling and personal insults, I come to one conclusion... I am a moron.
hahahha... good one aussie rocket.. .. they should have on the title "dont read this" and well, according to mr. MFW, everybody is a moron.. good for me I got out of the thing...
When examining Yao Mings game, I have come to the conclusion that before the big Toe Saga, not only was Yao playing injured but he tried to follow JVG's instructions and game plan to the letter. Ofter his return and having studied during his recouperation, Yao took charge and played the way he needs to rather than just toe the party line!
It's debatable to put Shaq ahead of Yao, giving the overall performance of the entire season. Both missed tons of the games due to injury, and both played great in the 2nd half of the season, but not that good before all-star break. At this stage of his career, Shaq is still a better player than Yao for a few games, or a 7-game series, but Yao was slightly better if you look at the performance for the entire season. Shaq got the vote, partly due to what he has done in the past, and partly due to Miami is a better team. As of putting Wallence in the 2nd team, that's purely due to the team he is playing for. It's hard to put anyone in the all league team when your team lost that many games, that's why KG is not in the 1st team. After all, basketball is a team sports, when the team does well, you will get all the glory.
Thats what Ive been sayin this whole time and Ive been getting clowned on for no reason. There are some really insecure people on here tryin to bring you down just for expressing your oppinion. Yao Ming may be the better player but he sure as hell didnt have a successfull season which is what you need to if you want to get some recognition, stats alone aint gonna cut it.
ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner... THAT'S ALL I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY... Chronz was saying the same thing... but we were getting bashed for no reason... hoof.. I cant believe the thing is over...
Like I said, you are a moron: 1. Everybody and their mother (the only exception being Reef) had their APG go up since being traded to the Kings, including Ron freakin' Artest half way through the season. If it ain't the system, I don't know what it is. What is more interesting though is that even back in the day that Miller was coming off the bench for Vlade Divac (or whatever PF they just happen to play), his dimes per game was 5 per game. Surely even a moron like yourself aren't suggesting that the Kings ran their offence through a bench player. 2. Me a dumbass? That's hilarious. I'm guessing that you didn't bother to check the thread title, or keep track of your own bullsh1t for that matter. Everything I posted had to do with the all NBA teams. The fact that you don't merely shows that you are too idiotic to even stay on topic. Not exactly surprising though. 3. You must be joking right? Is it me or did Yao score more points than Shaq did? Want Yao's offensive stats matched up against the other centres? Just wow. Gee, you could either make a huge excel file or you could just go to nba.com and look at their season average: Yao: 22.3/10.2 Shaq: 20.0/9.2 Man that was hard work. And as for your moronic career average rant, just because YOU are too stupid to keep track of what you are saying doesn't mean I can't keep track of what I'm saying. The ALL NBA TEAM IS BASED ON THIS YEAR. Career stats are moot. 4. I actually already stated quite clearly why I'm responding to you. I take sick pleasure in torturing the brain dead (such as yourself). But I can cut corners and still make you look like the moron that you are. There is no contradiction except to you. 5. What the f*ck does this have to do with anything? YOU were talking about the first game of the season in which Miller went for 21/8 in 41 minutes and you were stupid enough to suggest that he went off on Yao and/or got Yao in foul trouble. Any other game (especially those Yao didn't play in) is IRRELEVANT, get it? But of course, nothing better than creating a distraction when you are getting owned. I also happen to remember that game. That was the one where Reef was out with injury but Corliss Williams went off shooting 7 for 14. The fact that Miller didn't go off can be attribute to the fact that HE ONLY TOOK 8 SHOTS, unless you are suggesting that Deke can defend Miller's outside shot better than Yao can. Not to mention, that was based on an 1 game sample size, which is even more pathetic than your cherry picked 4 game sample size against Yao. 6. Serious, you are a moron. Obviously having a big man that can shoot is amazing. But that is completely different than a big man that can shoot when his man IS NOT being asked to defender 2 players like Yao was. In that game, in the first couple of minutes, we didn't set out a clear game plan for Yao. I'd blame JVG, but it was the first game of the season so I'm giving him some leeway. We initially had Yao patrol the paint, and then Miller hit 2 shots outside and we were lost on what to do. Yao was trying to put up a hand in Miller's face then run back to block the guard penetration and failed at it. It's simply because that he is slow footed and Bibby and Bonzi Wells are too quick. So then we had Yao/TMac defend Miller, which led to his only scoring 6 points in the 2nd half after going off in the first and Bonzi Wells killed us. Plain and simple. It says more about the Rockets lousy perimeter defense than Brad "one shot" Miller's offence. If I want some not-so-big big man with a 15 footer and some passing abilities I would have picked up some Euro instead of paying Miller millions. His one only saving grace is he actually plays decent defense and boards pretty well. 7. Resting Yao was te reason why we only won by 9, get it? That's also the reason why we had him come back in when it got too close. 8. Do yourself a favour. First re-read YOUR OWN post, THEN read mine. It saves you the trouble of looking like a moron. You were suggesting that Miller and Z put Yao on the bench with foul trouble. I showed very clearly, STATISTICALLY, using your own moronic 4 game sample size that Yao played as many minutes (1 minute more actually) against Miller and Z than he is expected to play against anybody. The fact that he played fewer minutes can merely be attributed to his lack of stamina and JVG's game plan instead of Miller and Z's offensive prowess. Get it? 9. See here now, what you have just said is a typical Strawman. Implying something I've said when I've clearly said no such thing. Your per stats, I ignored it? Really? Sure about that? Is that why I quoted that very post? In fact, it was after that every post that I brought in the EFG% stat. But then again, you can't even keep track of your own posts so I didn't expect you to be able to read mine. Now here's the interesting, in none of my posts did I actually suggest that Yao is the better defender, THIS YEAR, as compared to Shaq. In fact, I recall quite clearly challenging you to prove that: "IF WE ASSUME THAT SHAQ IS THE BETTER DEFENDER, HIS BETTER DEFENSE MAKES UP FOR YAO'S BETTER OFFENSIVE STATS TO DESERVE THE FIRST TEAM WHEREAS YAO DOES NOT." Interesting that you conveniently ignored that point ain't it? Furthermore, I think that you forgot that I don't have to prove that Yao is the better defender, especially considering I've not said such a thing, but the onus is on YOU to prove that he is a lousy defender, which you implicitly stated. Which is why the other thing I challenged you to prove is that: "YAO IS A LOUSY DEFENDER." Not as relative to Shaq but as compared to everyone, as you suggested, which so far you have did ditly squat to do.
Allright let me own you once and for all and please try to come at me with some logic. When Artest came Brad stopped being the catalyst and the offense ran through Artest and Bibby. So were you tryin to prove my point for me? Bench Player he started at a pf you dumbfuk, You know the only reason he was relegated to the bench was because C-Webb came back, or cant you remember that far back. And off the bench he avg 3.7 assists and 4.5 as a starter but even more important he avg 38 minutes as a starter and 31 off the bench, and with good passing bigmen like Brad, Vlade, and C-Webb the offense ran through them so yea they ran the offense through a "bench player" Dog I was showing you how centers have faired against Yao throughout their careers in an attempt to show that throughout their careers Shaq has been the better defender, and I allready showed you their PER allowed and points per 48 allowed and thats THIS YEAR, so you can drop the bull****, I showed you stats from this year and you have shown me NOTHING Ummm what? Well I showed you what offensive centers did to Yao this year and you said it was inconclusive so I show you what offensive centers have been doin to Yao since he came into the league and you say its irrelevant. Yeah real smart and then I show you stats of this year and you got nothin to say about it. Is it too hard for you to click the quote button? Hey I didnt say anything about it I just stated the facts, in the game Yao has missed Brad Miller faired poorly. As for me getting owned youve shown me nothing, all youve done is talk trash like a whining bitc#, pretty much your my whipping boy. Ive shown you stats that show Yao has allowed bigger games than Shaq you say they are too small of a sample size, I show you stats of their careers and you say they are irrelevant, I show you stats of the entire year and wouldnt you know it YOUR SPEECHLESS Deke did a great job at not giving Miller good looks and Miller didnt make much them, he did do his job at keeping Deke away from the paint and Corliss had a big game. Whats more pathetic you b****ing about how little games it is, or then b****ing when I show you larger sample size and sayin its irrelevant. They are both equally sad. Yea dik and he got torched. Then there you go Yao got torched because of JVG. So you found someone to blame it still doesnt change the fact that he got torched by his man. I dont think you get it let me run it back for you 1st Quarter: 8:15 Yao leaves the game with 2 fouls (thus foul trouble was involved you dumbfuk) 27-18 2nd Quarter Yao Starts and comes out at the 3:12 mark with the rockets up 39-41 2:00 Yao Ming re-enters the game and picks up his 3rd foul HalfTime 49-46 3rd Quarter Yao starts 6:13 Yao picks up his 4th personal and Deke comes in for Yao score is 59-53 in favor of the Rockets, and the lead is increased to 72-65 by the end of the 3rd. 4th Quarter 10:52 Yao comes into the game with the score bein 73-65 we're up 8:36 Yao picks up his 5th foul deke enters the game 69-78 4:54 Yao comes in with Rockets up 77-85 So you see not only were you lying about Yao not bein in foul trouble I think you would notice the lead was never challenged but it was far from bein a blow out. So one question left to ask DO YOU EVER GET TIRED OF BEIN WRONG? READ ABOVE YAO GOT INTO FOUL TROUBLE THE GAME HE PLAYED 28 MINUTES NOT BECAUSE IT WAS A BLOW OUT BUT BECAUSE HE WAS IN FOUL TROUBLE. Right so they just happen to play more minutes against Yao and less minutes against Shaq why? Sorry but its great defense when you keep your man off the floor and you on it. And because Yao gets tired that an excuse to get lit up? What are you talkin about, try using the quote button or do you like lookin like a tard? Look again dumbass you did not quote it. Just in case you did manage to miss my post here it is again So tell me where did you quote that message, yea exactly you done getting owned? Oh I was under the assumption you actually thought Yao was the better defender, Oh allright I knew you were just arguing for the **** of it. This debate is done, then again it never started to begin with. Well to answer your question Yao didnt make the list because he didnt have as successfull of a year as Shaq did. Plain and simple. Did I say Yao was a lousy defender? I said he wasnt as good as Shaq defensively. So anymore arguments that you want completely shut down?
Really I challenge you to list anything hes proven? When he himself said he wasnt tryin to prove anything he was just seein if I could And so far Ive shown him that Yao gives up a higher PER and points to the opposing center and thats for this year. And thats all weve been arguin about. Oh yeah hes also lied about Yao not bein in foul trouble and he played 28 minutes because it was a 8pt BLOWOUT. If your backing up this man then I might as well add you to my ownage list as well.
What good did it do Shaq having a higher rebounding rate... Did it translate into more rebounds? That stat doesn't help your argument because it is an EMPTY stat. By the way I can most definitely say that Yao was the better rebounder this season because he averaged more rebounds per game. Whether you like it or not ... kicking or screaming ... it happened ... this EMPTY stat doesn't change it. Since when is an offensive rebound considered better and more important than a defensive rebound ... Who decided that? Oh was it you? ... No matter how many times you split hairs or reach for straws ... we are not debating who was the better offensive rebounder. If you remember it was YOU who posted the false statement that "Shaq was the better rebounder ..." bar none over Yao this season and not that Shaq was a better offensive rebounder. Oh so now we are using YOUR definition of when opponents field goal % is considered worthy? It is what it is whether you consider it worthy or not.
