You keep asking other people to provide data to prove your point. Besides all your assertions the only information you provided was those game stats against 2 centers (what a big sample size). Even this data was then proved to be not at your side. You got owned time after time by convincing stats, now the only thing you can do is focusing on one point (which you're not even right about it) and making an assertion like "just killed your entire post and all your credability went down with it. Good night"? At this point, I have to agree, yes, you ARE a moron.
Wrong I keep askin him to prove my point which is TRUE Dear god another dope, you would know that I allready apoligized for tryin to prove something with only 2 centers but my reasoning was to see how they faired against offensive centers and found only 2, I would gladly use a bigger sample size if it was available but it was not, which you would know if you were to read all the posts, but I dont hold against you seein as how they were very long. But if it would satisfy your need to be an ass I could show you a larger sample size of Yaos Career Head 2 Head stats against Big Z and Brad compared to Shaqs. Either way the data supports my argument that when their defense is called upon Shaq answers the call. And show me what I was owned at, so far hes proven Nothing And please show me which assertions I was wrong about? Its true his credability has been shot and so is yours if you were to claim that SacTown doesnt run their offense through Brad Miller. Or do you deny his place. Seriously answer the question and call me a moron.
Definition of a moron is one who takes away what makes someone great in an attempt to show how worthless they are. Which is what he did with Shaq. If Shaq didnt have those dominant traits common sense would suggest he wouldve never learned to rely so heavily on them and possibly develop other skills. If Yao had Shaqs body hed know how to use it as well but since he has other advantages he learned how to just shoot over you. If you support his argument then you yourself are a moron.
Also for that guy who hated on me for including the game in which Yao played only 25 minutes compared to Brads 41 You can go ahead and subtract that game like ive done and the statistics look even more impressive so if I were you Id be greatfull for the fact that the Rockets threw Stro/Deke at Brad or the numbers couldve been alot uglier.
PROOF that MWF contradicts himself 1st post: In Which I responded that because Yao couldnt stay on the floor hes suppose to be excused. Then he came out with a this idiotic statement: OK so he gathered the total amount of minutes played through 3 games and somehow thats suppose to disprove the fact that Yao didnt stay on the floor long enough IN THE VERY SAME GAME HE MENTIONED? When you resort to such blatantly ignorant arguments you know youve been OWNED. Seriously I know hes been around here for alot longer than I have but that doesnt make him right. And YET you call me a moron?
PS There is a difference between not bein able to stay on the floor than not having to stay on the floor Please excuse the Spamming but I cant edit my own messages Ill try to stop doin this. OK Well heres the list of BIG Z's and Brads stats draw your own conclusion. Big Z Stats vs Yao 5Games MPG -- PPG -- REB -- AST -- TO -- FG% ---PPS 31.8 - 18.6 -- 7.6 -- 1.0 -- 1.8 - .412 --- 1.16 NOTE: I only included Games in which both players played over 30 minutes or within 4-5 Minutes of eachother, so Yao's Rookie year when he played 18 to Z 34 isnt included Big Z Stats vs Shaq 5Games MPG -- PPG -- REB -- AST -- TO -- FG% ---PPS 30.8 - 14.2 -- 7.0 -- 0.4 -- 1.14 - .467 --- 1.14 Ok for Shaq same rules apply and these were compiled during his days as a member of the HEAT. Brads Stats vs Yao 6Games MPG -- PPG -- REB -- AST -- TO -- FG% ---PPS 39.2 - 19.0 -- 9.6 -- 3.6 -- 1.50 - .567 --- 1.54 (Note I only used games in which Brad started at C and not pf alongside of Vlade Divac.) Also know that if I wouldve included games in which the opposing center played significantly less minutes than Yao or under 20 minutes the stats would actually bend in Yaos favor but since you do not consider games in which Yao or any center couldnt stay on the floor and therefore should not be held accountable these will have to do. Well heres their career numbers Brads Stats vs Shaq 7Games MPG -- PPG -- REB -- AST -- TO -- FG% ---PPS 31.2 - 13.5 -- 8.2 -- 3.0 -- 1.57 - .497 --- 1.46 Note: Due to the fact that Shaq utterly dominated Brad and constantly put him into foul trouble there were fewer games that met the criteria or else this couldve been very one sided but Im not goin to bother reasoning with you.
Well to be honest I posted the 1st one in response, then after having some time to reflect I posted the others, and then when I finally decided to do the list I had to make another post. Im also used to boards that merge consecutive posts so itll take some getting used to but I promise itll be the last time I spam like this especially once Im able to edit my posts.
Career stats? Great, hasn't it been mentioned 100 times the all NBA team is about the previous season? Good try. Keep jumping.
BTW, I don't know the Kings well coz I don't care. Even if I do, I'm not gonna start another thread talking about Sactown's offense system. It's a Rockets board anyway. But But --- assume you know Kings better, where does it put you? Does that mean you also know Rockets well? I don't see that. You didn't know the 't-distributions' theory MFW mentioned. Does it discredit all your other points?
Man that was about 3 arguments ago. We are not sitting on a new argument on how to quantify both Yaos and Shaqs defensive prowess. My argument for Shaq bein on 1st team was because they had too similar of a season to overlook the success Shaq had. I even reasoned that making the all nba 1st team doesnt necessarily meen your the better better rather than you had the better more more memorable season. KG didnt make the team but that doesnt meen he isnt a top 5-10 player. Now we just keep goin back and forth because he made this ish personal and he continues to flame me. So I consider it my duty to expose him for the fraud that he is. I meen come on how do you b**** about one thing and then contradict yourself in the next argument. Im starting to think he just argues for the sake of it. And if thats the case then I guess I might as well stop arguing wit the kid.
Wait a second, you just said they Yao and Shaq had too similar of a season, and Shaq being NO. 1 team is because of his reputation and team success. Right? Isn't that most of people's assumption here (including myself)? Then what's the point to argue?
I know that before they traded for Artest, Brad was once the teams leader in assist per game and I thought it was understood that Sacramento has been running the high post princeton offense since the days of Vlade and Webber, Brad fit right in. How does his t-distributions discredit anything Ive said? His main argument for Yao bein the better defender is his Efg% allowed stat. All Ive been tryin to do is find other ways to quantify defense. I just figure it would make more sense to show how they performed against centers that have both played, either way it wont tell us who is the better help defender but atleast we would get an Idea.
Reputation may play a part but that is not key to my argument. But team success will always play a role when it comes to individual awards, especially true for Bigmen because of the fact that the influence bigmen have on the outcome of the game is much greater than a perimiter player. And the only way to disprove that Yao was robbed would be to show me the last time a player with similar stats managed to make 1st team over a player who made the playoffs. But if Yao had finished the season with the numbers that he was averaging in the 2nd half of the season then their would be a valid argument but Im not goin to overlook shaqs wins based on 1 extra rebound and 2 points per game.
You post there too or nah? Seriously it may seem like Im hating on Yao but all Ive been doin is expressing my oppinion about Shaq havin the better year. I didnt join Clutchfans so I could argue against Yao but when you have people flamin you, you cant help but respond.
I'm there occasionally, but mostly stick to these forums. And I have no problem with you expressing your opinions. But you must understand that most of us here will defend their Rockets because of how much we love them. In any case, welcome to Clutchfans.
You know what I just realized thanks in large part to Jim Raynor, if we are to consider the efg%A stat then we might as well look at the whole picture and the production of the opposing centers PER. http://www.82games.com/0506/05HOU21C.HTM Yao allows a rating of 11.6PER, and 14ppg http://www.82games.com/0506/05MIA17C.HTM Shaq allows a rating of 9.0 PER with 13.5Ppg Even more evidence supporting the idea that they have played VERY similar this year. And the fact that this guy has been all over me for tryin to shine a light on the subject to me displays his incompetence and insecurities.
My credibility only went down in the eyes of a moron such as yourself. And this isn't a debate. It's a smackdown. If it's a debate you'd actually have to have an argument. No really, please do tell me how Miller is the catalyst of the Kings defense when they don't have one (and even if they do, it'll be Bibby). The KINGS' SYSTEM is their catalyst. If Miller is the catalyst, why did his APG all of a sudden jump from about 2 to roughly 6 when traded to the Kings? Divac was doing the same thing (and doing it better) before he got old. And if the whole team isn't running around picks, cutting and slashing, what the hell is Miller worth? Jacksh1t. He'll be just like any other NBA big man with nothing offensively but an outside shot. And once again you are too f*ckin' stupid to understand despite it being pointed out to you repeatedly. Let me bold and capitalize it for you: THE ALL NBA TEAM IS BASED ON THIS YEAR. CAREER STATS ARE IRRELEVANT. Only a moron such as yourself can't understand this simple argument yet still feel the need to take yourself seriously. And btw, I only edit my message to correct occasional spelling errors. You know, it's the primary purpose for editing. Only a moron such as yourself would suggest that I'm editing my posts afterwards when even time stamps on them clearly show that they came before your moronic rants. Furthermore, the more you talk the more stupid you look, I didn't even think it's possible. Want me to provide the list of centres Yao and Shaq guarded. Hmmmmm, let's see, that's a tough one ain't it: Atlanta: Zaza Pachulia, apparently some scrub named John Edwards as well Boston: Kandiman, Kendric Perkins, Raef Lafrenz occassionally Charlotte: Emeka, Primoz Brezec, Melvin Ely, is Jake Voskul (sp?) still on that team? Yada yada yada. You know, all you had to do was go to nba.com. They provide the whole list. Or is that beyond your mental capacity? Oh, the numbers part? It's far from 2nd grader level. You see, my level of response is based on how seriously I take who I'm responding to. Sure I could have quoted everything, but that'll be just a waste of my time on a moron such as yourself wouldn't it? I will tell what is 2nd grade (if even that) though, your argument. But oh well, no matter how moronic, at least you have one. RocketMac on the other hand is just a little twerp.
Seriously, why do you open your mouth? You are too stupid to even understand the simple concept that the all NBA teams are based on THIS YEAR, hence carrer stats and Yao's defense in the past is completely irrelevant yet you are offended when others call you moron. That's just hilarious.
