Yao Ming named to All-NBA Third Team

I'm guessing you missed the 3 or 4 well said/good points posts. I merely said what people believe all along, except, like I said, I'm not afraid of not being politically correct.

 

I feel a little better knowing that they were stupid enough to put Marion on the third team too. These guys must not watch much basketball.

Rockets get no love, and Marion continues to be one of the most overlooked players in the league.

 

So back to flawed argument number 1 arent you. So if both played more against Yao wouldnt that meen they couldnt stay on the court long enough or do the Kings love to play without Brad Miller who is the catalyst of their offense. im sure it was by design to have Miller on the bench. Once again your ignorance is on full display. If you cant be on the court you cant score thus you played great defense.

Yet you b**** about Yao not bein on the floor long enough in a attempt to show he shouldnt be held accountable for them goin off. Yea keep contradicting yourself you look real smart.

Here are the stats:

Again would you like me to show you their career numbers against Yao and Shaq or would you just claim those to be inconclusive as well seriously why are you so afraid to answer this? Ive asked you twice.

So because they blew em out it makes their defensive stance less impressive. Maybe if Shaq wouldve allowed them to score more the game wouldve been closer. Damn man keep em coming I cant stop laughin.

No actually I said it long before I started talkin to you that Yao may be the better man defender and I recall sayin bein 7"6 does help him in that aspect it still doesnt make him a better overall defender. I dont remember hearing Riley complaining about Shaqs defense, whereas Van Gundy would call Yao out so to me the coaches words hold more weight than a disgruntled fan who cant stop flaming.

You havent proved either and you will not prove anything untill you provide the list of centers that both Yao and Shaq had to gaurd and provide their offensive output allowed, I could easily get it done and you may be right and I may be wrong it wouldnt be the first time but I rather not waiste my time unless its absolutely necessary. Would you like me to provide the list?

I take pride in knowing our team can play defense but if you know anything about basketball defense meens nothing if teams constantly outscore you, our defense hurts our offense teams cant find a rythm and neither can we. Our slow pace is what makes us look better defensively but considering that the Heat score at an efficient rate it makes their defense even more impressive. Despite all the talk of them not bein better defensively (which they could considering the make up of their roster) they arent too shabby where they stand.

I think you would agree that both Shaq and Yao are the premier offensive bigmen in the league and both require more double teams than Z and Brad. So the more appropiate thing to do would be to look at who scored more against double teams, and the answer would be shaq.

Of course it is, thats why you take pride in flaming

Man quit sayin that, I wish I could be but sadly the bong has been put away for the next 3 months, damn probation.

I think Ive figured you out my friend, it seems to me You are easily blinded by statistics without looking at the whole picture, the reason pace factor was invented was to shine a light on teams such as the rockets. Considering the heat play at a pace that allows for an offensive rythm it makes their defense more impressive.

Defensive FG% allowed
Houston fg% 42.916 (2ndbest)
Miami fg% 43.917 (8thbest)

Dallas fg% 44.327 (10thbest)
San A fg% 43.333 (3rdbest)

All season long youve been hearing that Dallas is a good defensive team yet they have a lower fg%allowed, and would you claim Houston is a better than the Spurs defensively based on a the better fg% allowed? You would have a point if Miami ranked in the bottom half but they arent slouches either.

The more appropiate thing to do would be to look at the points they allow per shot which would account for the high percentage of 3pt looks we allow or the rate we send people to the line.

Houston Ranks 9th in PPS with 1.19
Miami Ranks 10th in PPS with 1.21

Which is exactly why we shouldnt be disussing Team defense allowed rather than focusing on the games when Yao and Shaq actually had an impact on the points allowed. So get started on that list.

Yes for the same reason its not as bad to see Kobe allow Bowen or Dixon drop 30 when you see him shut down scorers. He knows when to play tight D and when to help his teammates. Obviously if your gaurding Brad Miller or Zydrunas your not goin to sag on them to help your teammates, so if you want to prove whos the better defender you got to look at when their defensive prowess is being tested.

Im not sayin to use one, Im sayin gather both and anything else you want to get a better idea. If thats stupid then I dont want to know what you think is Smart.

Dog I think you got your memory twisted, probably from confusing me with Rocketsmac, Im not the one who braught the refs into this argument so you can go ahead and laugh at yourself.

Shaq has the better PER and similar Per Game avg thats what Ive been tryin to say since the begining. If you want to disprove that then go ahead and try.

Oh please your making me blush

 

I agree with you on that but when you have people WANTING, NEEDING, to see statistical analysis then you have to provide it. So its a lose-lose situation. And yes if there was an ALL NBA 2nd half of the year award I wouldnt have any complaints towards Yao bein named 1st team because his offensive stats may be enough to overlook Shaqs wins. But he finished with very similar numbers.

 

Huh? What does getting 3 championships have to do with giving a damn for regular season games? They won the championships in the playoffs, not the regular season. That's exactly the point. Dude, you need to use your brain before you try to defend your hero Shaq. Do they still teach logic in school?

BTW, there are that many Shaq haters in LA. And even the LA media criticized Shaq's obvious laziness in his taking off during the regular season.

 

my point is if he was that lazy they wouldn't be in the playoffs right ???.. or do they just skip reg. season and go straight to the playoffs.. last time I checked u had to win in the reg. season to go to the playoffs... so u r saying that Shaq was lazy in reg season but he was active in playoffs.. wtf?? they won CHampionships in the playoffs, oh, ok... I know somebody who really needs his brain...

 

talking about stupidity,.. haha.. u r mentally instable sir... I think u should get ur brain checked or something... and dont take drugs man, they can make ur situation even worse...

no sir, I dont get it.. u know why ? because when I replied to u in #253, I was criticizing ur language sir, and I also argued with u about the SHaq thing because myself and Chronz agree on the thing.. but if u noticed, I didn't give any opinion or thought about the Ilgauskas thing...
u know what, It's alright to say that u messed up sir. .dont try to hide it or say "I didn't reply to u"...
and ask ur self Mr. r****d, 270 comes AFTER 253 right ?? I guess.. because I thought we are done with 252 and 253 and my reply to 270 was because u were talking to me..

oh, I dont think so.... u know what, lets not keep talking about this, because it doesn't matter anyways and everytime u reply to me it makes u look more "not bright"..

u r absolutely right, MJ did learn how to shoot, Malone did learn to do so too.. but guess what ?... Rodman didn't, Barkley didn't.. and the list goes on and on.. and believe me sir, If Shaq could improve his shooting, u would probably see him shooting 90% right now.. but like I said, it's a gift...

u know what u f*ckin moron, I am f*ckin' sick of ur f*ckin' stupid insults.. forget all the "respect" sh*t..I cant take ur **** for ever, do u get it dumba$$ ?? I've been patient for over a week just for the respect of all the members.. but it's gone too far. u crossed the line u r****d... u r the freakin moron... u dont even make sense.. reputation is a flaw, O.K.. well sir, that's the way it goes in the NBA.. if u were Dr. J, u would have to say something.. but since u r not Dr. J or DAvid STern and u have none to do with the damn NBA, u cant change it.. u gotta live with it... why did they take MJ to the all-star game every single damn year even though he sucked bad in the last years ?? why the hell did they pick Magic Johnson to the allstar game after he came back from AIDS and he was weighted 1000 pound...reputation... ok then >>>STFU...

already explained.. u r hilarious.. and ur ediocity makes u even funnier.. haha..

everybody does that and they dont get called for offensive fouls, but they only call on SHaq because he is much better.. and com'on now, u must be crazy if u dont agree with me that over 80% of offensive fouls called on SHaq are flops and bullsh1t...

u r not funny, and u r the freakin moron...

u r talking as if u've actually watched games for SHaq.. haha..

7'1 7'2, great height for a center..
average NBA quickness- that's right, average because he is freakin 3000 pounds.. I am pretty sure he IS quicker than most centers in the NBA (including Yao).. the dude has a small forward's quickness on a monster's body .. that doesn't give u a worthless player,,that gives u an unstoppable center..
limited low post moves? yeah right... limited low post moves... u know what, I think Miami should trade him to the lakers for BYnum, Shaq sucks really bad.. (oh, crap, I forgot that LA waived him), ok then, Waive Shaq and pick up Bynum.. lol. u r as funny as hell...limited low post moves... btw, I am seeing an increasing number of alligators floating in the skies of Houston... things are getting weired these days..

I didn't say that u said that.. I dont know why u r coming up with stuff.. actually, I dont know why we are arguing.. seems like u r bored and u want people to laugh at u a little bit ...

haha.. talent.. what a talent.. u have a great talent in trash talking.. but I am actually better than u in that field.. I just rarely use this skill and I've used it only once in this thread (check above, I was really mad.. sorry for the inapropriate lang)..

I dont want to waste more time on u moron.. just leave me alone.. everybody has laughed enough on u... I feel sorry for u ... please, dont reply to me again.. it's getting old and boring.. btw, I am goin over-sees next week.. so I wont be available.. damn, I am gonna miss laughin at u man..

what ever.. please tell me how am I supposed to support my point if my point is "Shaq and Yao had similar seasons, SHaq won b/c of reputation".. it's been proven already a 100000 times.. I dont know why u keep trying to argue with me...

actually, I think everybody stopped arguing with me because u came in and started talking ****.. and other members have a much higher class than u.. so they didn't want to witness all ur bullsh1t....

once again.. I am not looking forward for any replies.. I am sick of ur stupid posts... take care...

 

Man, you make less sense with more typing than just about anyone I've ever seen here. You're entitled to your opinions, but you should understand that Houstonians feel all-time great centers should still be in their prime at Shaq's age. Instead, he's merely not as good as Yao. He's not.

If Diesel Big Aristotle Law-man likes to sit down a lot during the regular season, who cares? If he does lead the Heat over the suddenly imploding Pistons I'll wonder where the hell that guy has been, even if he's third banana. Until then, you read like a rookie with no manners despite your knowledge.

I've always liked Shaq.

 

I dont understand why u think that I make less sense with more typing ... I think my point was clear: u gotta go through reg. season to go to the playoffs.. if the center and the superstar of the team is lazy in the reg. season and he doesn't want to play hard, then they wont go to the playoffs...

and I dont know why y'all have a problem with SHaq not playing enough in the reg. season.. I mean, if they are winning by 30 points, I dont think it's a good idea to play him and risk his injury.. .my bottom line is: as long he is carrying them to wins, he is a great center.. even if he scores 8 points in a game and sucks in free throws... and one more thing, I dont know why this turned into a "Shaq sux" argument.. y'all dont have to do that..SHaq doesn't care about anybody's opinion... I dont understand why people from Houston hate on SHaq.. the dude said that Hakeem is the greatest center of all time and he said that he whipped his butt.. he is the only (or one of very very few) player to give Hakeem his deserved credit.... that's why I like him and I support him... now all of these "suddenly and recently became rockets fans" hate on SHaq because everybody says that he is the best center in the league and they want Yao to be the best center... why would u care?? ... Yao will soon be (if not already) the best center after SHaq going downhill/ retirement.. and that started this season.. Shaq is getting old and heavy, his legs cant support him anymore....

u've always liked Shaq ? I doubt it seriously.. u sound like a Shaq Hater to me..

 

Now this is just funny:

1. Miller is the catalyst of the King's offence? Wow. That's just hilarious.

Not only are you stupid, you can't read either. I've already explained why Miller and Ilgauskas was on the floor more against Yao than against Shaq. Why, BECAUSE IT WAS A BLOWOUT basically each time when they played against Shaq, so neither side played their starting centre significant minutes.

On the other hand, when they were playing Yao, the games were much closer. So both Yao and Miller/Z played more minutes. Simple concept. Get it, got it, good?

Furthermore, I find it truely amusing that you didn't mention that one lone game Z played against Yao, where he went 21/8 and all, the only reason that he even played 35 minutes was because the game went to OT. Yao had him at 5 fouls around the 25 minute mark. Z basically stopped playing defence after that. So go ahead, tell me once again how Shaq had both Miller and Ilgauskas in foul trouble whereas Yao did not.

2. Wow, you must be really f*ckin' stupid? Let's check the foul stats for the two shall we? Yao played an average of 34.75MPG, had 5, 2, 5 and 5 fouls for an average of 0.122 per minute. Shaq played 27.75MPG and had 5, 4, 4 and 3 fouls, an average of 0.144 per minute. Please do go ahead and tell me who had more foul trouble against Miller and Z.

3. Again, you are a moron, as stated about 50 million times in this post, the all NBA teams are BASED ON THIS YEAR. But if you want to use career numbers, why not wait until Yao retires (in which he will further improve on D) to compare?

4. Seriously, even you can't possibly be this stupid. Miller and Z's SCORING RATE against both Yao and Shaq were highly comparitive. And scoring rate is irregardless of how many minutes they played. What it shows is that Shaq DID NOT play better D. Those two just played less against him to bring the averages up. Simple math. Only an idiot like you with a hole in your head can't tell the difference.

5. This part is funny. Who's defense DOESN'T JVG complain about? Even when he's praising Ryan Bowen or Juwan, it was for their EFFORT, not their results. If you really wanted to prove who of Shaq and Yao is the better defender based on anecdotal evidence you would have used what Riley said about Shaq and Yao or what both JVG said about Shaq and Yao. As Riley never coached Yao and JVG never coached Shaq, obviously that's not possible.

But here's an interesting anecdote. Fans (both in LA and Miami) complain far more about Shaq's defense than Houston fans complain about Yao's defense. Interesting no?

6. Feel free to do whatever you like in finding top defensive centres.

7. You know, this argument goes both ways. You said that Miami plays decent defense but also decent offence which makes it impressive, I can say that because our offensive is so damn inept, it makes Yao's offensive stats even more impressive. Funny thing ain't it?

What else is funny is that, aside from Shaq, Miami had no real significant injuries whereas on the Rockets, aside from Yao, we had a ton of injuries. Yet we still beat out Miami as the better defensive team, despite Miami having better defenders beside Shaq. So go ahead and tell me again how Yao is, in your words, a lousy defender.

8. Sorry ta tell ya, but, from the stats I'm looking at, Yao scored more against double teams/fronting/etc, unless you are suggesting that he isn't being doubled/tripled in games.

9. Bong or not, I think the years of pot smoking hasn't quite cleared up in your head yet. No really, go ahead and tell me, how good a defensive team was Houston before Yao showed up. Even in his first season when Rudy was still coaching we improved marginally. And now we are an elite defensive team when health. Now don't tell me because it was because of Flyin' Ryan Bowen.

10. Are you f*ckin' high or something? What does FG% allowed have to do with pace. Do opponents decide that "oh wait, we are playing against the faster paced Heat so we should shoot a lower %?" It has everything to do with PPG allowed per game but nothing to do with FG%.

And btw, yes Dallas has improved on D. Perhaps no the best, but definitely improved. Ever wonder why they are always out in the 2nd round in the playoffs but still going this year.

And the Spurs, they'll pretty soon be yesterday's news. It's already beginning. Duncan is slowing down and his stats getting worse every year. They are no longer the defensive team they used to be. They'll still compete for a couple more years but unless Pop pulls a genius trade out of his ass, they'll go down sooner or later.

11. Oh this part is funny. So it's OK for Kobe to let his man score 30 as long as he doesn't let his teammate's man to score 30? Real funny. So +30 - 30 ! = 0?

12. Gee, gather anything I want for statistical significance? I'm gonna go with the norm and say 30 games worth of data, which you can't provide THIS YEAR.

13. So finally an admission huh. So you admit that both Yao's and Shaq's offensive and defensive output is too similar to say definitively whether one player is better than another? Yet at the beginning of your rants you felt the need to describe Yao as a lousy defender whereas Shaq is not.

Like I said, I don't think Yao is screwed for not getting the 1st team. Like I also said in my response to RocketMac, I think it could have gone either way and I have no prob with either. The only reason I even bothered wasting my time with you is your moronic claim that Yao is a lousy defender and defnitely didn't deserve the 1st team.

 

Seriously, get a gun and shoot yourself. You'd be smarter that way.

1. I hate quoting myself, but for an idiot like you, it appears that I have no choice. In post 252 and replying to CHRONZ, I said:

"First of all, those same Ilgauskas, Miller, Curry, Kristic, Stephen Hunter et al, are the same players guarded by Shaq and Ben Wallace. So only a moron like yourself would make the idiotic assertion, "oh, who exactly does Yao have to guard."

In post 253 you replied TO ME:

"I dont get this part... "

Then in post 270, I replied:

"The Ilgauskas, Miller, et all part? What don't you get exactly? Part of Chronz' idiotic "argument" regarding why Yao doesn't deserve the award was based on that he faces the likes of Ilgauskas, Miller, Hunter, etc, which of course, he could have merely simplified down to "every other centre in the league."

I mean, hell, I even pointed out that I was replying to CHRONZ' argument, repeatedly at that. Now, if you actually read post number 270, I neither implied that you agreed or disagreed with it, yet you are stupid enough think I was addressing you, evidence by post 309:

"who told u that I actually agree with the Ilgauskas, miller thing ?? I haven't even opened my mouth with a freakin word supporting that way of thinking.. all I was trying to say is: try to be a little respectful and try to sound a little more "professional" in ur argument instead of going "street lang." on us... I dont understand why u gave me this big reply, I haven't even said anything talking about other centers.. I suggest u read my posts first and try (if u can) to understand my view on the topic.. dont just go crazy on me.. if I agree with Chronz on some points doesn't mean that I agree with everything.. he might be making good points but if I didn't say anything regarding it, u cant assume that I agree with him..

talkin about I cant read.. haha.."

Like I said, even the braindead would have understood this argument by now. Which makes it very much true when I call you a moron.

2. Well, I never pretended to be bright now have I? I merely pointed out the fact that you are a moron. See above.

3. So MJ did and Karla did improve but Shaq didn't means Shaq has good work ethic? Boy, we sure set our bars low don't we?

4. You can't be this f*ckin' stupid. The ALL STARS IS NOT THE ALL NBA TEAM. The voting procedure is DIFFERENT. The voting population is DIFFERENT. The FANS pick the all star teams, which is INTENDED GO GIVE THE FANS WHOEVER THEY LIKE TO DAMN SEE. Even in that case it's only for the starting lineup.

I'm still waiting for you to give me a reason why THIS YEAR'S All NBA teams, which are picked BASED ON INDIVIDUAL MERIT THIS YEAR and NOT BASED ON POPULARITY should be based onREPUTATION BASED ON PAST YEARS.

Besides, all of your moronic rants merely proves that the voting process is INHERENTLY FLAWED. Just because it's been done doesn't mean it's been done right.

5. This again, the more you talk about this the more stupid it makes you look.

6. You must be f*ckin' high. Everybody lowers their shoulders and don't get called an offensive foul? If Yao gets away with it half as many times as Shaq does he'd be scoring 30PPG. The only reason a very few selected players gets away with it a small number of times is because they'd whine and ***** to the refs because Shaq gets away with it.

7. So now you are challenging the fact that Shaq lowers his shoulders?

8. Obviously Shaq doesn't suck. But I'm amazed by your totally pathetic reading comprehension skills.

Like I said, go ahead and tell me how a 7'1 - 7'2 centre 260 - 270 lbs with average NBA quickness, limited low post moves, no outside shooting, lazy on D, lousy work ethic, no freethrow shooting capabilities, whines like a ***** isn't worthless.

9. Like I also said, you are too stupid to even keep track of what you said yourself. Bullsh1ting will do that to you. So let me guess, you didn't say:

"then why in hell are u still arguing with CHronz that Yao should've been first team, and why did u get so mad that y said "I don't have a single problem with being insulting and not politically correct."

in post number 292?

10. So you are saying that you can find plenty of OPINIONS that Shaq had similar seasons to Yao? That's good. I just happen to hold that similar opinion.

Now here's the question though, how do these opinions "prove" jack? Oh wow, I'm guessing that's the best you can do huh?

Furthermore, let's take the above statement as correct and true, how does that back up your moronic claim that Shaq deserves the 1st team but not Yao? No no, don't be modest. Enlighten me.

11. The real reason why people stopped arguing is quite simple really, isn't it? I believe it was Zboy who said way the hell back on page 3 that arguing with you is like arguing with a 5 year old. It's quite simple really. When there's an idiot (that'll be you) has no argument whatsoever yet still feels the need to open his trap, and in fact, go on and on, people tend not to take what he says seriously and naturally stop arguing with him.

That is the case here. Throughout it all, isn't it interesting that of all people, only Chronz (who also happen to have a hole in his head) is the only one to agree with you?

12. My posts are offensive, rude, condescending. Like I said, I don't feel the need to be nice or politically correct. But your posts are the real stupid ones. Know why? Even when other people come up with moronic opinions, they usually back it up with some sort of (often biased) evidence. You are too stupid to even provide that. Which makes you a, gasp, moron.

 

This just killed your entire post and all your credability went down with it. Good night. Seriously if you want to debate with me atleast have the intelligence to reply directly to what I just said or is that too complex for you? Ill read what you have to say if you edit your message and do like I said untill then I will remember you for not bein able to provide the list of centers that both shaq and yao have gaurded, bein too scared to answer my question of whether or not you want to see the career stats of Z and Brad vs Yao and Shaq, and for the comment above. You do know that the Kings ran their offense heavily through Brad Miller if not I think you need to start watchin more teams other than the Rockets play seriously your missing out on alot.

Oh yeah and Ill remember you for your argument about taking away what made Shaq the dominant Center and 3 time finals mvp. I will end this by sayin I look forward to other debates with you but tone down on the hate it only lessens your argument.

 

Seriously me and Rocketsmac can do this why cant you? It would help from the confusion when you are not clear to others people wont know what your sayin to them. Putting numbers at the beggining of your sentence makes you look like a 2nd grader are their numbers next to what Im sayin? How do I know what that applies to, because alot of times you start talkin about **** that had nothing to do with what I said.

 

This is fun.

Yao does not suck at defense and is a better player than Ben Wallace. I happen to think that he is now better than Shaq.

 

You only need a Kobe and half a Shaq to get into the playoffs. That's why Shaq looked bored during the regular season as a Laker after their second title.

 

A common misconception is that these awards are for the better players when its just rewarding those who had the more succesfull season.

Look KG didnt even make the list but no one thinks he isnt a top 5-10 player in this league he just didnt have a successfull season.

All Shaq was doin was following Phils advice and pacing himself untill the time came. The fact that Shaq was able to turn it on and dominate like he has done is a testament to his dominance.

 

A common misconception is that these awards are for the better players when its just rewarding those who had the more succesfull season.

Look KG didnt even make the list but no one thinks he isnt a top 5-10 player in this league he just didnt have a successfull season.

All Shaq was doin was following Phils advice and pacing himself untill the time came. The fact that Shaq was able to turn it on and dominate like he has done is a testament to his dominance.
And unlike alot of you were sayin none of us LA fans cared if Shaq was "lazy" just so long as he showed up in the final weeks (which he did) and came to play come playoff time.

 

Yawn.. man, u r still there... u know what, lets put and end to all of this because it went way too far, it seems like it's endless... and I will be the one to compromise (wisest people usually compromise).. so I am not going to argue with u anymore.. I dont have personal problems with u sir.. lets just get it over with.. we disagree with each other, so what ? screw that crap... it's alright..we went too far that I think other members are a little annoyed with this (maybe not a little).. in the end we are both rockets fans... have a good day sir...