I live in Los Angeles. Yes I'm a YOF. Shaq's poor work ethic is pretty much widely accepted. The guys weighed 290 pounds his rookie year. He has to be over 330 now. Most of that 40+ poounds is not muscle. I can understand Shaq being 1st Team over Yao. The 2 are still comprable and reputation does matter in the voting. And since Yao doesn't pound his chest after dunks, the media doesn't like him. But Yao does not suck on defense and is waaay better than Ben Wallace. If the 2 switched spots this year, the Rox would have lost over 60 games. Juwon Howard would have been your main offensive weapon. The Pistons probably would have made a serious run at 70 wins.
Tell me, do you enjoy humiliating yourself or something? 1. Who can't read? You. My comment on Ilgauskas, Miller, et al wasn't directed at you. It was directed at Chronz. In fact, if you go to thread page 13 you'd find that I QUOTED CHRONZ, NOT YOU. So go ahead, tell me whether my comment on the fact that you CAN'T READ is justified. 2. Once again, you the moron can't read. In that specific post of mine in which I replied, I DIDN'T quote you. So I have no idea why you felt the need to get involved and received that ass whipping you are getting now. 3. How about we take a poll. Want me to create one in the NBA Dish or any other forum you want. How many here think Shaq has good work ethic. Is his excellent work ethic the reason he shows up out of shape every season, put off a much needed injury until the season starts and NEVER learnt to shoot some damn freethrows which he chokes away games with every year? I'm waiting to hear about this one. 4. Funny to change your tone after you got owned. Your initial assertion had nothing to do with how the voting process is inherently flawed/not flawed and everything to do whether Yao/Shaq deserved/did not deserve the award. But I suppose that's the only tactic left to you. 5. Again, I DID SAY IT TO CHRONZ, but a little twerp like you felt the need to get involved. 6. Same point 5. 7. Are you f*ckin' high or something? Calls went against Shaq before this year? Every offensive move Shaq does (read lower shoulder and bow into defender) is in reality an offensive foul. And this playoffs, Shaq is merely getting called more for offensive fouls (which he should). I suppose you are like Phil Jackson who cry foul during the 30% of the time things doesn't go his way instead of the fact that he got away with an offensive foul (and often the defender picks up a blocking call) 70% of the time. The difference however, is that Phil Jackson has a vested interest to misrepresent. You however, on the other hand, are just a moron. 8. Once again, given the above, prove that Shaq is getting treated badly by the refs. 9. Let's see, 7'1 - 7'2 centre 260 - 270 lbs with average NBA quickness, limited low post moves, no outside shooting, lazy on D, lousy work ethic, no freethrow shooting capabilities, whines like a ***** is worthless. That was my claim. Now which part of the above did an idiot like you disagree with? You laugh at me? What a joke. 10. For the record, I don't think Yao got screwed in the all NBA team votings. I do think that he has eclipsed Shaq and had a better year, however, he did not perform significantly better for me to say that he should definitely be on the first team, which is why in the entire thread you did not see me claim that he is first team material. What I am arguing is Chronz' moronic assertion that Yao is lousy at D and your moronic assertion that his selection to the first team is not deserved over Shaq when in fact it could have gone either way. 11. Yawn, that was your argument? Once again, no factual evidence, no stats, not even anecdotal evidence, all subjective opinion, stupid ones at that. When I read your rant on the first page of the thread I didn't feel the need to reply to you. But given 13 pages of pointless drivel, it gives me plenty of evidence to judge you. And you are a moron.
You know, you just are f*ckin' hilarious. Not only are you stupid to understand logic, you are too stupid to do proper research. 1. Yao couldn't stay on the floor against Miller and Ilgauskas? What a joke. I'm guessing that you didn't realize that Yao played 137 minutes against Miller and Ilgauskas while Shaq only played 111 minutes. So who couldn't stay on the floor here? Hmmmmm, let me think about this one. It's actually funny because your stupidity actually proves my point for me (that you are a moron) because it completely discredits everything you have to say. 2. Actually I understood your point perfectly. You had two moronic arguments. One was that Shaq was a better defender, the second was that Yao didn't that much better offensively to make a difference. Then you went and cherry picked 4 games worth of stats to "prove" your defensive point while completely dropping your "Yao didn't do that much offensively" point off the face of the earth. I'm merely wondering why you didn't feel the need to use Ilgauskas' and Miller's offensive stats to prove that Yao didn't do that much better offensively. But then again, when you bullsh1t, you are liable to forget your own moronic rants. 3. You must be high or something. The Rockets sag to protect the paint? Have you ever actually watched any games? The Rockets give up perimeter shots because the Rockets suck at perimeter D. In fact, they suck so much at perimeter D, rotations, PnR defense that Yao is asked to step out on picks and chase a guard back to the basket. And the next time the Rockets stop a guard penetration would be the first. The best perimeter defender (guard wise) on the Rockets is David Wesley. David Freakin' Wesley, who just happens to get injured half way through the season. Furthermore, if needed, Riley can call Haslem and/or Zo on D to help guard the paint while Yao has Stro and Juwan. Even I could fake both of them out of their gym shoes. Yet despite all that, Houston is a better defensive team compared to the Heat, so gee, good point there. Welcome to idiotsville, population, you. 4. This part is just hilarious. Like I said, even if ignoring the obvious logical fallacies, Shaq is a better defender when he could only defend two people in the league while Yao is worse when he can defend everybody else? That's just hilarious. Then they really should vote all defensive teams based on each player's best record against two players. 5. Yes it would require both to play 82 games. But I think we can safely say that at 56 games (namely, gasp, this season), Yao is the better defender, which is more than sufficient to toss out your moronic rant. 6. Quick statistical lesson. Often performance curves are assumed to be normally distributed when that's not necessarily the case. For example, if yo plot Yao's stats over the course of the season, I doubt that it would be normally distributed. But usually the performance are some kind of bell shaped curve, might be beta, might be t, etc. For sample sizes not sufficiently large t scores are frequently (though not always correctly used). For most practical purposes only at a sample size of 30 do the t score closely approximate the z score, yada yada yada, blah blah blah. All of which means your cherry picked 4 game sample size is as useless as your head in constructing a logical argument. 7. You must be high or something. Shaq doesn't get the calls? You know it goes both ways right? They let Shaq get away with offensive foul, hence, makes it impossible to defend him, yet you cry foul when they let defenders slap Shaq to try to stop him. Great concept there. 8. Well, this part always intrigued me. If we assume that you are a moron (which you are) then I'd be of average intelligence. If we make the gross assumption that you are of normal intelligence, that'll make me a genius.
I agree with everything u just said Sir... we pretty much have the same view on this topic.. but I dont agree with u on the part where u said that Shaq has a poor work ethic.. I dont think his weight has to do with his work ethic.. all I care about is that he gives a 100% on the court and he gets improves or adds a move to his game every year (not the last couple years of course, those are his down-fall years)... and about pounding chest after dunks, I've never seen Shaq going crazy like everybody does (like Nowitzki for example).. the only thing Shaq does is this "look at his hand" thing which is pretty funny and entertaining.. SHaq is a cool dude, everybody in the league likes him except for Kobe ( and that's why I hate kobe and a lot of people do).. .SHaq has a great personality and he doesn't have this "S. O. B" look at his face like many other players do now-a-day..
Shaq gives 100% on the court? Yeah right, only "when it counts." I live in LA, even homer Laker fans said that Shaq didn't give a damn for regular season games. He conveniently chose to do his toe surgery rigth before the season started so he could take his vacation like "any working man does."
didn't mean that Shaq pounds his chest - just seems that that's the kind of stuff that gains popularity for you (ala Kenyon Martin - a more overrated player is hard to find) i have to disagree about Shaq's work ethic. it's well-known around here that he doesn't work too hard to stay in shape. I think the weight gain has everything to do with his work ethic. If he weighed less, he probably wouldn't be missing 20 games a year.
Sir, I believe you are WRONG.. u actually quoted me sir..that was post #270.. I think u should go back and make sure who u quoted before u f*ckin reply to me.. ok.. I am not here to assume that this part of the post was not directed to me...wtf ?? sir, once again.. I believe I quoted post #270.. and in post #270, u actually quoted me...maybe u got confused, maybe u messed up, I dont give a f*ck, I cant assume that the post is not directed to me... well, I dont think it's his work ethic that affects his free-throw shooting... some people just cant shoot, it cant be taught... they can work on his form and everything, but that doesn't mean it improves ur free throw shooting or overall shooting.. shooting is a gift, which Shaq doesn't have... I am pretty sure he worked really hard to try to improve his shooting, but once again, u cant just LEARN how to shoot... and talking about his weight, I agree with u that he is a little out of shape this year AND IN THE PAST 2 YEARS, but that's because he is getting older.. and actually, his weight helps him in out-powering other centers and dunking over them.. u cant look at the last 3 years of somebody's career and say that he has poor work ethic... and no, I dont want u to make a poll, because all of Yao's fans will vote against SHaq to prove that Yao is the best center.. I am a big Yao fan, but I still respect other players and give everybody his credit... and I really like SHaq mostly because of his great stance when he played Hakeem (Hakeem kicked his butt, but he went out like a man and admitted that Hakeem dusted his butt and blamed the blazers for all of the "refs are not calling travels on Hakeem" bullsh*t... no sir, I didn't change my stance.. and that's not a tactic or anything, I am silly like u trying to force ur opinion on others... I dont use tactics and stuff, that's not a political debate and I am not running for office... my initial stance was a little extreme/uncontroled and a lot of people misunderstood me because I was a little harsh on Yao.. so I tried to make it clearer and help people understand better.. I said from the beginning that Shaq and Yao had awfully similar seasons, but because of Shaq's reputation, he won it, and that's not a flaw in the voting system.. that's just the way it goes and I have no problem with it.. again, u actually quoted me... funny how u keep saying that "I said it to Chronz".. I hope u dont edit ur post so all the members would know how bright u r... same reply for point 5 for u too... and no, I am not ****in' high.. I think u r either on drugs or u are mentally challenged... Shaq's moves are not offensive fouls, but unfortunetly, in these days basketball (where hand-checks are called fouls), they count everything as fouls.. they dont want those soft a$$ players to get hurt... now I am not old, but I always watch old-school basketball/NBA and I really admire the fact that all the players were tuff back then... and I am not even going to get ot the playoffs argument with u because it's either u haven't watched any games for the Heat OR u think that Elton Brand is actually SHaq... no sir, I am not like Phil Jackson..I hate Phil Jackson.. and I am not a moron.. I know there is a moron around here though... I'll prove it for u... go to google.com, search "Miami Heat 2006 playoffs games" , click on the link, pick a couple games on DVD, and WATCH THEM... it's not a geometry class, it's basketball... haha.. I am just going to laugh again... ur "SMART" argument (dont take literally) is just so funny... then why in hell are u still arguing with CHronz that Yao should've been first team, and why did u get so mad that y said "I don't have a single problem with being insulting and not politically correct."[/QUOTE] ok.. great argument man.. keep it up.. I am like u man, I hate quoting myself, but well, when u are arguing with a guy like u, it's sometimes necessary to do so because smart people like yourself dont get things from the first time.. and sir, I dont think it is possible for me to bring in stats BECAUSE MY POINTS ARE CLEAR AND THEY DONT NEED SUPPORT...(you cant support that SHaq's reputation gave him edge over Yao with stats ) peace..
first of all, I think all Lakers fans hate SHaq for some reason, maybe because of the problems between him and their "Mr. Ballhog" Kobe.. and u cant say that SHaq didn't give a damn for regular season games, he led the team to 3 championships and to a period of great success...
Shaq and Yao both missed a lot of games. Both guys averaged about 19/9 during the first half of this season. However, as we all know, Yao went on his monstrous tear after the ASG which already set him apart from Shaq, who couldn't turn it on. And no it wasn't a streak. Streaks last for 10 games or so, Yao did it for the ENTIRE 2nd half. And he did it while being triple teamed with no help from his teammates. Shaq had Wade, Haslem, Walker, Williams, Zo, Payton to back him up. Yao had who? Juwan "can't guard an open door" Howard? Stromile "fake and I'll jump off my pants" Swift? David "smurf" Wesley? 100 year old Deke? How about scrubs and has beens in Frahm, Bogans, Brunson and Bowen? Yao was arguably better than Shaq already at this point. However, I'm not surprised Shaq was picked over Yao for first team. Disappointed sure, but not surprised. I expected it, in fact. Ben Wallace for 2nd team, on the other hand, is a freakin JOKE. This guys is the poster boy for people who benefit from the SYSTEM. I'm not saying Wallace sucks on defense, because he is excellent at it. However, a significant part of his excellence comes from the fact that he has teammates who are good to excellent defenders themselves. He has 4 DPOYs, sure, but then again, Hakeem is 10 times the defender he is, and Hakeem only had 2 DPOYs. Besides, it's not like Yao is a slouch on defense. Stats posted by other guys already show that Yao is a better man defender than Shaq and Ben. What others don't realize is Yao is also tops in deterring shots inside the paint. Whenever Yao is in the game, opponents are less likely to go inside and will settle for the outside jumper. This is part of the reason why Yao doesn't get too many blocks. And then we go Ben's offensive game... Oh wait... HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE. He has no post moves, no jumpshot and his FT% is FAR WORSE than Shaq's! He gets by more on reputation more than actual skill. Yao practically TRIPLES Ben's offensive output at the expense of just 1.1 rebounds and 0.6 blocks. Someone will argue that team record plays a huge part of the ALL NBA voting, then why ignore the fact that the Rockets have struggled with injuries all season long? And that with a healthy lineup, we went 28W10L?
Had Ming stayed healthy and the Rox won, then he would have been 1st team, but he didn't eventhough everyone thinks he is the best center in the league and played like it.
ok.. great argument man.. keep it up.. I am like u man, I hate quoting myself, but well, when u are arguing with a guy like u, it's sometimes necessary to do so because smart people like yourself dont get things from the first time.. and sir, I dont think it is possible for me to bring in stats BECAUSE MY POINTS ARE CLEAR AND THEY DONT NEED SUPPORT...(you cant support that SHaq's reputation gave him edge over Yao with stats ) peace..[/QUOTE] Even I have trouble believing that you are this f*ckin' stupid. 1. I replied TO CHRONZ in post #252. YOU replied TO ME in post #253. 252 and 253 COME BEFORE 270. Get it? 2. Given the above, your assertion that I replied to you and that I am "messed up" is just hilarious. 3. You've got to be high or something. You can't learn to shoot in the NBA? Want me to name people who did? MJ did. Freethrows? Karla did. Your claim that you can't learn to shoot is borderline demented. 4. Basing things on reputation MEANS its flawed. Want to know why? Hmmmm, I wonder. As pointed out repeatedly, the all NBA team is based on THIS YEAR. Reputation, which is based on past years should be as relevant to the discussion as Enron's stock before 2001. All of which means if you think reputation should be a factor, you are a moron. Plain and simple. 5. Here's a good one, you can't tell whether 252 or 270 comes first and you are saying maybe I'm not too bright. That's just hilarious. 6. See above. 7. You've gotta be f*ckin' kiddin' me. Lowering your shoulder into the defender IS AN OFFENSIVE FOUL. Or maybe I need to qoute you the rule book. 8. Well maybe you aren't a moron, just the one who's reflection is in the mirror when you step in front of it. 9. Like I said, get the game tape, and watch the number of times Shaq lowers his shoulders, then come back and tell me how he's getting screwed. 10. Wow, feel free to tell me how 7'1 - 7'2 centre 260 - 270 lbs with average NBA quickness, limited low post moves, no outside shooting, lazy on D, lousy work ethic, no freethrow shooting capabilities, whines like a ***** isn't worthless. 11. Please quote me where I said Yao SHOULD DEFINITELY be on the first team. I'm guessing that you can't. Just a hunch. 12. Any argument is a great one when arguing with an imbecile like you. So really, I'm wasting my talents here on you. 13. Tick tock tick tock tick tock, once again, I'm waiting for facts, stats, evidence, etc. I've even lowered my standards to accepting anecdotal evidence from you and even that you can't provide. 14. This is the best part, it's always hilarious when one says "I'm right and my points don't need support" while at the same time and keeping a straight face and tell me he's not a moron. As for your idiotic reputation bit, see point 4 above. 15. Let's be honest here, ever wonder why everybody else here stopped arguing with you? Because you are a moron. In fact, the only reason why I keep on is because I have a sick pleasure in torturing early age dementia individuals such as yourself. You amuse me and are good for a cheap laugh of the day.
Actually I think it has more to do with your flaming ways, people get bored of hearing your a moron, no your a moron so Ill be the first to end it while you have not done any of the things I asked, is it because they cant be done, thus proving my point. Im done with you
