[SI] Rockets over Magic #10 greatest playoff UPSET???

In Dream's 2nd year, I wanted the Rockets to trade Sampson for Jordan. I bet the Bulls would have done it.

 

Buddy, I have the tapes. He was rusty. Horribly, horribly off. Numbers or not, only a fool would choose 1995 Jordan over any other Jordan year during the Bulls era.

What's so hard to get about this, guys? He was able to put up good numbers in the playoffs because Chicago's offense went like this:

1st Quarter: Jordan struggles to score, but scores -- going at it alone.
2nd Quarter: Pippen runs the offense with Jordan on the bench.
3rd Quarter: Jordan struggles to score, but scores -- going at it alone.
4th Quarter: An unholy alliance of the first three quarters, usually resulting in a loss.

Don't get so freakin' insecure about a single line, guys. The Bulls were picked apart by the Magic in 1995. They played better team ball, were quicker to react, and Chicago could not counter Horace Grant.

And, if the Bulls somehow got past the Magic, they probably would have beaten the Pacers, only to be trashed in five games by the Rockets -- only taking one in Game 3, mainly because it's very hard to beat a veteran team four times in a row over the course of a week.

 

Kelly this subject has come up several times before. Some posters here don't have a clue what Jordan was like in those playoffs; others are insecure as you say; others sincerely believe Jordan wasn't rusty because his scoring stats look OK. I agree with you the 95 Bulls squad wasn't good enough to win the championship. For that matter I don't think anyone here has said otherwise. But it's a sensitive subject in these parts because it seems like some folks outside Houston almost want to put asterisks on our championship years.

There's more stuff on how Houstonians didn't feel the Rockets got their due respect after those two seasons but I won't bore you. Hope this explains the hypersensitivity.

 

i tried to buy them, but mom wouldn't fork over the 79.99 for them.

 

glad they mentioned the first round series against the lakers, i wasnt alive back then, but i have seen 1 of the games, man that was an upset

 

what size did you wear back then? i was still a kid, so the Boys sizes were around $50-55. up until that point, those were my most expensive shoes. gosh i miss those days.

 

[from Happy Gilmore]

Mad Max ate pieces of sh1+ like Jordan for breakfast...

wait - Mad Max ate pieces of sh1+ for breakfast?

 

here's why it's so hard to get. because i watched it too, and totally disagree with you.

because i watched him shoot for a higher percentage than he did in successive playoff seasons. he wasn't just jacking up shots. MJ was good. the limitations you're talking of are because of his teammates. they were lost playing with him. he had no interior help. they were beaten by the magic in 6...they never lost a game by double-digits in that series, though.

MJ averaged more points, more assists, and more rebounds per game than he did the following year when the Bulls won 72 and took out the Sonics. I honestly have no idea where the notion came that he was rusty..shaky..didn't have his legs, etc. If you don't have your legs, you don't shoot like that. If your court vision sucks, your assist totals aren't up. He had 4 guys average double-figures for the Bulls in 95...3 did in 96. The difference was defense, defense, defense. The Bulls had NO interior defense in 1995.

The rusty stuff is an excuse. It allows Jordan-philes to continue to believe that he didn't really get beat...because it really wasn't him out there. It was someone else wearing #45...not #23. Not really Mike.

But Mike was out there. He brought it. It wasn't good enough.

 

i'm not sure it's an upset if a #6 seed DESTROYS a #1

i could see it being an upset if we beat the magic 4-3 in the series, but for Christ sake, it was a sweep.

not even remotely close to an upset.

 

wait, what? that's what makes it MORE of an upset.

like the 1990 (i think) World Series...Reds vs. A's. The A's were being heralded as one of the greatest teams of all times. The Reds rather shockingly swept them in 4 straight games. it was amazing...and the fact they did it in that fashion made it even more of a surprise.

 

yeah that post didnt make sense after i posted it

but you know the great ones never edited their posts.

 

There's no "excuse" making here. This is the insecurity seeping through, again, Max. 1993-level Jordan playing with the 1994-95 Bulls would not have beaten the 1994-95 Houston Rockets. 1993-era Jordan MAY have beaten the Magic in that series, but it would have been close. IT IS POSSIBLE FOR JORDAN TO BE RUSTY AND FOR TONI KUKOC AND LUC LONGLEY TO BE OVERMATCHED AT THE SAME TIME. I don't get why I have to keep repeating this.

I don't know how anyone could watch tapes of Jordan's comeback year, Jordan's following season, and the 1992-93 season and not deduce that he was not "rusty." This boggles the mind. He was using an entire set of of muscles that hadn't been touched since June of 1993. He was shooting jump shots, not fading away (he couldn't jump high enough to fade away from the defender), having to tilt his body so as not to get blocked. This wasn't even like his pitiful showing with the Wizards -- MJ had spent summers working his body towards basketball shape for that run. He was able to get fadeaways off during that run. 1995 was all tilted jumpers and up-and-unders.

Grover's regimen called for him to build his upper body and leave the legs alone for his time down in Alabama. He was an entirely different athlete, who, because of smarts, touch, and the unmatched ability to demand and get the ball every time down court (taking away from Chicago's balanced offense), he was able to put up great stats. Stats that look pretty solid 11 years later.

The bulk of spring '95 was filled with up and under moves, quick jumpers (with the ball released before Jordan had hit the full arc of his jump, so as not to get blocked), and an inability to "turn it on" in the fourth quarter. Of course Jordan's stats were better, because he was going at things one-on-one every time. The ball went through his hands every time down court because he was not in sync with the Triple Post and his new teammates. Notice that, while his regular season stats may have gone down compared to other years, his USAGE RATE stays the same. When Jordan left the floor, the offense flowed. When he was on the floor, the Bulls merely competed.

I don't know why I continue to argue this. You people have 11-year old memories and stats, and I have tapes of these games that are flickering on the tube just a few feet away from me.

You just don't pick up a basketball after 21 months off and return to championship-level greatness.

 

It's going to be impossible to get passionate Bulls fans and passionate Rockets fans to agree on this. Hakeem got his rings-that i am happy about. But this is what sh1ts me:

1) The media constantly acts like MJ wasn't in the NBA in the '95 playoffs. Not rusty-but not even there.

2) To this day, Hakeem still doesn't get the respect he deserves. It bugs the hell out of me when Shaq is mentioned amongst the immortals like Wilt, Russel and Kareem when Hakeem has more skill, intelligence, PASSION, and all-court game than Shaq ever did.

3) Scottie Pippens contributions are constantly overlooked, MJ never won without Scottie by his side. We all say Scottie would never have a ring without MJ, but i believe the reverse is true also.

I still don't think the any of the Bulls teams could beat a team with a true, dominant center like Shaq or Hakeem. Ewing was good, but the dude wasn't next level.

 

hey man, these 3 things just kill me ... I just go crazy when people dont give Hakeem his credit.. I dont know what's wrong with them..

 

The 94 Finals were overshadowed by the nasty Riley-play, and the OJ issue. The 95 Finals were hurt by the fact that NBC wanted MJ in the Finals, and if he couldn't make it, then they wanted Shaq and Penny's coronation. It sucks horribly that people sluff off the Rocket dynasty, and gloss over Hakeem's dominant decade. And those thinking that a full-on MJ would have beaten Houston are just morons. Even with Horry/Chilcutt, it would have been a rout.

But you can't dismiss the FACT that Jordan was rusty. He had to work twice as hard to get the stats needed just to keep the Bulls competitive. And in working twice as hard, he put the kibosh on any free-flowing offensive scheme Phil Jackson may have had in mind. Just as it is with Kobe now, games that saw Michael with 40 and nine assists (like in 1989 or so) usually ended in a Bulls loss. It was the 28-6-6 games that usually ended in Bulls wins. The ones where Mike didn't have to score, and didn't have to DIRECTLY set up teammates as much. The mere threat was enough to encourage a defensive freakout, and solid Triangle play.

You can't just go off stats, though. You have to take in context and understand where MJ was coming from -- a winter spent in the batting cage.

 

please.. even if he was full power, AND HE WAS, he would've lost to us... stop denying it everybody, MJ was a great player, but HE AINT THE GREATEST.. and he wouldn't have changed the results in 95.. and the Rockets would've still kicked his A$$.. and Hakeem owns him.. and HAKEEM IS THE BEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME...

 

I guess you missed that part, Mac. KD's actually trying to call this down the middle, as a sportswriter, its his job. (Wish i could say the same for other writers though).

Slow Down a bit, we all love our Rockets and hate the disrespect often given to them, but remember it when we win the rings with T-Mac and Yao.

 

MadMax & RocketsMac please read this:

dream2franchise, thank you for reading Kelly's posts with a clear mind. I am both an MJ fan and a passionate Rockets fan. Kelly states the facts pretty clearly IMO.

I only disagree with your last point. For some reason, (maybe in retaliation for the dissing of the Rockets), many Rockets fans try to diminish how good the Bulls championship teams were, IMO.

We all agree even a tuned up MJ wouldn't have carried the Bulls over the Rockets in 95. We also agree the jerky media didn't give the Rockets and Hakeem their due respect despite 2 straight championships. But let's lay the insecurity and resentment down. It's been 11 years.

 

I always try to move on, then some writer brings it up again and it reopens old wounds. I guess i do undervalue that team, i don't have the ready to view access that KD has, for that i am insanely jealous. Basketball coverage in Australia is, well, hard to come by on a consistent basis.

I'm only focused right now on next season and hoping that T-Mac and Yao can take us to the championship.That's all my mind is set on right now.

 

Amen!