Hello, I'm from Greece (a Panathinaikos fan) and I was randomly browsing the net when I happened upon this thread so I thought I'd inform you about Spanoulis since there's so much interest in him. His pros: He shows an extraordinary ability to adapt. In his previous team, which was a good but small club, he was the Kobe/Lebron of the squad. He had the freedom of doing anything he wanted in the court and noone would blame him if he took 20 shots. Because of that, a lot of people expected him to not adapt so easily in Panathinaikos since he would be "just one of the guys" in a very strong team which already had very good players in the pg and sg positions. Despite that, and despite coming from the bench in most games, he plays like a veteran. He never had to go through an adaptation stage, he reached his peak from the start of the season and has been very stable on the court ever since. Right now he's the 2nd leading scorer of the team in the Greek league with 11.4 ppg and he also leads the team in minutes per game (26.6), fouls won, assists* (3.3) and FT shooting (81%). His Euroleague stats were even better, despite being a rookie and the competition being much stronger. Although his offensive moves can be predictable (see his cons), he has the ability to get the most out of them. He has made a lot of big baskets with the opposing defence expecting him or dished the ball to a free teammate. His greatest strength is his expertise of pick n' roll plays, although I don't know how much these plays are used in the NBA. He's very enthusiastic in his game and never admits defeat. I've seen him many times pulling us from being under by scoring 6-8 points in a row when the rest of the team is down psychologically. He also has the nerves to attempt game-winning shots, he doesn't hide when the ball is hot. He was the best player in the crucial games with TAU and although PAO was eliminated noone had any complaint from him, on the contrary it was said that if the rest of the players had been on Spanoulis' level PAO would have won the series easily. Defensively, he's a very good stealer. He plays a relentless but also smart kind of defence, the kind that upsets opponents and makes them lose the ball easily. His cons: As it has been mentioned, he's a combo pg/sg and I think it's too late in his career now to try and change his style and devote himself to only one position. Another con is that his attack moves are a bit predictable; I can tell if he's going to shoot a 3p or attempt a drive just by the way he moves his legs and dribbles the ball before that. If I can see that from my TV then coaches and smart defenders can probably predict it easily as well. An aspect of his defensive game that is a pro in Europe but can turn into a con in the NBA is that he's a very good "diver". He wins at least 1 offensive foul in every game due to his ability to dive realistically. I suspect that this will be a con because the game in NBA is much more physical and it won't be easy for him to fool the refs. But he's a smart player and I expect that after the first 2-3 times that he won't get an offensive foul he'll stop using that technique. His enthusiastic style of play leads him to commit a lot of turnovers; above I listed his statistic accomplishments but he's also the team leader in TOs with 3 TOs per game. He's not a very good rebounder for his height and I've never seen him block an opponent's shot. That's all for his playing analysis... Would he make the move to NBA next season? I doubt that. He just only joined PAO and I think he wants to win enough trophies before making the leap to the NBA. Although PAO will probably win the Greek championship this year (which will be Spanoulis' first), as most of you know we missed the opportunity of challenging for the European league title. Next year, the Euroleague Final Four will take place in Athens, in PAO's home court and that's a huge challenge for anyone involved in the team. There are talks about the board bringing a big NBA star to help the team so everyone in the team is already psyched about it. I don't think Spanoulis would leave Europe without having another shot at winning the Euroleague title. After he does that of course, the road will be clear since he would have won everything there is to be won in Europe in a very short time (Greek league and cup, Euroleague, European cup with the Greek national team). Also I don't know if he'll be able or willing to get tested at a summer camp. There's the World Cup in Japan this year, so as soon as the Greek league play-offs are completed sometime in June, Spanoulis will immediately join the Greek national team training camp to prepare for the WC. After the WC is over he will have a very short vacation before having to join the team's training camp to prepare for next year so I don't know if he'll have the time to get tested by the Rockets. There's also the fact that no Greek player has managed to have a good career in the NBA so far. Antonis Fotsis who had been Greece's big hope went unnoticed in his one year there and Jake Tsakalidis only recently has started playing well but technically he's not a Greek. Spanoulis would surely want to be the first native Greek player to really have an impact on the NBA; on the other hand, he knows that he has to be completely ready and sure about himself before he makes the move. That's all, sorry for the length of the post but I hope that you will find it useful : ) *Yes, assists are counted differently in Europe. For a pass to qualify as an assist it would have either to find the player who scores totally unguarded for an easy lay-up or dunk or to be a very impressive, behind-the-back or no-looking kind of pass. If they were counted in the NBA way Spanoulis would easily have double digits in assists in most of the games.
Thanks Tauntaun, That was an awesome analysis. I hope you are wrong about him not going to the NBA though. I think he's ready. I've only seen 3 or 4 games though. Also, about the diving, it is very prevalent in the NBA. I personally think its bad for the game but you are at a disadvantage if you don't do it.
Tauntaun13, thanks for the analysis. LOL on the "dives". Those european players certainly learn that part of the game. That sounds a lot like how Nocioni plays defense. I like a lot of what I have read on V-Span. Hopefully they can bring him over. Seems like he could add a lot to the Rockets.
Ah, I didn't know that diving had become so prevalent in the NBA, usually one of the first things former NBA players say that they find difficult to adapt to when they come to play in Europe is the amount of diving by defenders. A funny thing that happened recently is that Spanoulis got a technical foul(!) after an attempt to dive, so it will be interesting to see if he'll continue to use this "technique" a lot now that it seems that even Greek refs are on to him. It's too early of course to predict if he'll decide to come over there next season or not. I remember reading some interviews of him where he said that he isn't in any rush to play in the NBA, he first wants to spend a couple of seasons at least with Panathinaikos so that he can compete at the top European level and drastically improve his game. On the other hand, if the Rockets REALLY want him now and show it to him, no doubt he'll be flattered so he might decide to come over there early. In some greek sports newspapers there were comments today by the VP (I think) of Rockets about what a good player he has become, so that could be a prelude in their efforts to land him this year. I'll be sad to see him go but I think it will be better for him and the Rockets (and my team of course ) in the long run to wait a little bit before he makes the trip overseas. And I daresay that you should tone down a bit your expectations of him; he's a good player, a useful player, but don't expect him to have the same impact on your team as Ginobili or Parker has on Spurs, or Nowitzki on Mavs, or Peja on Kings. He's not that kind of player. He's a very good team player, who will always work really hard every second he'll be on the floor.
Tauntaun13 - Do you have any idea what he makes in dollars playing over there. I also heard that the Euro players make quite a bit of money in appearances and endorsements. Span might factor the non-basketball money he makes over there when he makes his decision.
I searched in the newspapers' archives and found out that he signed a 3 year contract for 1.4 million Euros. Panathinaikos is the richest team in Greece and no other team could have offered him that much, although he has said many times that money was the last thing he considered when he chose a team last summer (he was a free agent). There are also the bonuses he'll receive from winning the greek cup and league. I don't think that he makes a lot of money from endorsements and such things though, he's not the kind of flashy player that attracts advertisement companies.
Spanoulis is among the 10 players who have been nominated for this year's Euroleague MVP award. The official Euroleague site says this about him: "If one player has had the most sudden impact in his first Euroleague season, he has to be Vasilis Spanoulis of Panathinaikos. Despite coming off the bench, Spanoulis has shown the future belongs to him. His athleticism, shot selection and all-around offensive skills have experts comparing him to some of the best European guards ever."
Always nice to hear! If he meets only half of that praise he will be a solid rotational player for the Rockets, and someone this team could really use.
I wonder whether he wants to come to Houston next season: 1) He might want to win a Euro championship first since his team is not that far and they are supposed to get help next season; 2) Whether a rookie contract is good enough for him. Considering the deappreciation of US dollars, he might ask for a big chunk of Rockets MLE, which might limit Rockets' move to acquire other important players.
Thanks for the infos from our Greek fan. I can understand V-Span's plan of getting some trophies in Europe before coming to NBA. But this year could be the best time if he ever chooses to come here and play. We are looking for a backup PG this off-season. He is best fit for this role of playing 10-15 minutes though he plays more like a combo guard. But his dribbling/passing is better than Head/Sura. For the price he probably will get from Rockets(half MLE), it's hard to find someone has his ability/age/experience.(most free agents PG are either too old or too expensive)
There were some interviews of Spanoulis in Greek newspapers because of this article in the Houston Chronicle where the Rockets GM compared him to Parker and Kobe and he hinted that he probably won't come to the NBA so soon. I'll translate that part for you: "Right now my first priority is Panathinaikos, which is like a family to me. Everyone embraced me from the first moment and I mean the coaches, the administration and the fans and I'm really very glad to be in this team. It's important that the GM of Rockets spoke with so many flattering words about me, but I look at every decision I have to take very carefully. I want to make each step at the appropriate time and I feel there are still some things that I want to conquer with Panathinaikos." Btw, his nickname here in Greece is "Kill Bill".
Thanks for the translation Tauntaun. Looks like VSpan likes being a big fish in a small pond. Now it looks like we're back to plan B, hoping that Bob Sura can make it back next year.
DD you are on the right track !! CD should have kept his mouth shut. If VSpan now thinks that he would be as effective as Parker [SA] we might never be able to afford him. By the way he has been saying almost the same thing every offseason, since we drafted him![swapped]
Thanks, TaunTaun. it's awesome reading about the game as it is played in a different part of the world. that was a great analysis. i'm excited reading about V-Span, but i also highly doubt he'll come until he's won everything. that being said, can you imagine the Greek population of Houston that would come out of the woodwork to see him play? i haven't been to TC in a while, but do they serve any Greek food? they might start, if they're not already, once we get V-Span to come over. i'm kinda worried about the predictability of his moves. the key, i think, to guardplay in the NBA is having an arsenal of moves/shots that you can just mix-and-match and make up on the spot, so that they cannot be anticipated. if someone can anticipate that he's gonna drive, they'll just move over, plant their feet, and 'dive'/draw a charging foul. then again, V-Span sounds smart/ruthless, so i figure he'll be able to adapt. TaunTaun - is it true that the Greek crowds throw coins and other debris during games if they get mad? i can't imagine playing amidst that, but i'm sure contributing to it would be fun as hell. haha.
Certainly more options is better than less. But I can't help but think of Stockton & Malone. Everybody knew what was coming, but nobody could stop it.
Well the newspaper did go on to say that Spanoulis will be in a big dilemma if the Rockets offer him a very good contract but that's all speculation for now. My feeling is that he won't leave yet. I don't know if he'll exhaust his contract with Panathinaikos (it expires at 2008) but the Euroleague F4 at Athens next year is a huge challenge and everyone in the team is angry about how they failed to bring the trophy back home this year so they definitely all want to give it another shot, especially in front of our own crowd. The only way I can see this changing is if Spanoulis plays really well in the World Cup so that the Rockets will be even more eager to sign him (and thus offer him the contract he wants) but I don't know how much playing time he'll have as our power is in our guards and the other 3 who share that position (Diamantidis, Papaloukas and Zisis) are at the same level, if not better in some ways, than Spanoulis. Though they're better at the organising and defensive part of the game, Spanoulis is clearly the best attacker/scorer among them so he'll still get enough time to show his skills. Errr, well the coin-throwing isn't something to be proud of, but it happens sometimes. Usually the targets are the refs after a really bad decision, or certain players from certain teams the fans have a rivalry with. When we signed Byron Scott, he was so shocked by the object-throwing in one of his first games in front of an enemy crowd that he wanted to leave the arena at halftime! Another very memorable incident was when a prominent journalist (think something like the Greek Larry King) threw a bottle of water at a ref but instead he hit John Amaechi who was playing for us at the time.
tatu, you're my fav new poster. thanks for contributing and "keep posting immediately". i was reading your responses at work today. mistake if the rox don't bring this mf'er over now.
