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House Democrats reject bill that would make it easier to build refineries

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bigtexxx, May 3, 2006.

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  1. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    but wait...this one directly hurts consumers.
     
  2. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    is it really, I thought it was unrest in iran and nigeria. oil prices have gone up on speculation, not because of refining capacity.
     
  3. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    Exactly. I don't see what this has to do with the Dems.

    I've never complained about high gas prices (although I have mocked W about his cozy relationship w/ big oil). If you are worried about high gas, then change your lifestyle.

    So if selling your soul to the devil for a short-term gas releif (which isn't a short-term fix anyway) to build less restricted refineries that pollute vs. building refineries that don't pollute as much ...I chose the latter. The potential consequences of global warming is a biggy.

    Big oil is having record profits. If they wanted to build new refineries, now is the time.
     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    close thread
     
  5. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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    i think there are other reasons beside lack of refineries that is causes gas prices to go through the roof
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    of course there are other reasons. this is one of the reasons. you can't scream that you want lower gas prices and then make it difficult to build refineries adequate enough to meet demand.

    i think it was the guy who owns Virgin who was thinking about building a refinery. he said the restrictions to build a refinery in France were more lax than the restrictions to build one in the US.
     
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    shell is expanding one of their refineries to make it, if i remember correctly, the biggest one in the world. the one that's in Port Arthur.
     
  8. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    Why don't we just tell them that either you spend the money on building new refineries or we are going to increase their royalty payments to the normal amount.
     
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Why would building more refineries ease prices. the refineries buy crude, that is their biggest cost. the cost of oil has gone up at the driller level. that's why companies like exxonmobil make huge profits. they are the ones benifiting from the cost of oil.

    not the refiners. refining isn't the problem. your local gas station isn't running out of gas anytime soon. if refining was the problem then they would be the ones making the huge profits. but their isn't a refining problem, gas stations have no problem getting gas. if that was the problem, then building more refineries would be the solution, but it isn't the problem.
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    refining capacity is part of the problem. remember what happened to prices when the refineries were hit by hurricanes last year?


    http://www.cges.co.uk/pdf-lib/GOR154WorldRefiningCapacity.pdf

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0921/p11s02-usec.html

    http://today.reuters.com/business/n...TRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-ENERGY-OIL-PRICES-DC.XML
     
  11. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    the prices went up because of the hurricaines. if all the refineries were on the gulf coast, they would have still gone up. it took a hundered year hurricaine to shut down refineries and make refining capacity an issue, it was a once in a life time event.

    why don't we do this, keep the taxes, use them for alternative fuel research, so refining capacity will never become a real problem.

    these companies aren't worried about you are paying for gas, their only worried about the costs to build a refinery.

    katrina happened, and the refineries are back up running. you know what would happen if they built these refineries and these speculated disruptions never happened. gas prices would go up because they would have to pay for the refineries
     
  12. thegary

    thegary Member

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    i really don't know enough about the issues involved but i'm gonna throw my 2 cents in anyway. seems to me we all ought to find a way to sacrifice, to use less gas, as this dependance is what's gotten us into this pickle in the first place.
     
  13. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Is that true? If so, I'm damn glad the bill didn't pass. Besides, I'd much rather have a Democratic Congress write energy legislation after the Fall elections. I trust the GOP on energy policy as far as I can spit.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    it's my understanding not all of the refineries are back up and running fully.

    here's the last part of the last article i posted above:

    The ability of refineries to turn that crude into petroleum products has also become tighter, as refineries have ramped up production and operated for longer periods.

    This has "reduced the system's flexibility to respond to any disruption in refinery production, either from hurricanes or other events," the EIA said.

    The agency said tight U.S. gasoline supplies could "pull up" crude oil prices, because limited surplus refining capacity makes each gallon of gasoline worth more, "increasing the value of the crude oil used to produce the refined products."
     
  15. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i agree with that, too. but i also think the genie is out of the bottle. we've done urban planning based on the ability to get around in automobiles. we can debate whether that was a good thing, but it's done now.
     
  16. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    It doesn't mean we have to keep doing it.
     
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    you mean urban planning?

    no it doesn't mean that. i agree.
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    max,

    all those articles are speculation. its simple economics, when the demand is at the oil level, drillers have no problems getting their permits to do more drilling because they know it will payoff in the long-run.

    if refineries were feeling the pressure, they would add that in their prices, therefore making money to build more refineries because just like oil companies.

    I just refuse to believe easing up on environmental restrictions is gonna create this boom in refinery building
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    except that the regulations to build refineries are so steep that it doesn't make it nearly as enticing.

    by the way..oil companies are generally the ones who OWN the refineries to begin with.

    speculation drives price, by the way. part of the price of gas futures is based on refinery production and capacity.
     
  20. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    making this issue even more ridiculous. like someone else already wrote, if they want to build refineries they should use their record profits.

    have you seen how much these guys are making?
     

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