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Former Reagan NSA Chief & General : Out of Iraq NOW!

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, May 3, 2006.

  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Cut and Run? You Bet.
    By Lt. Gen. William E. Odom

    Page 1 of 1
    May/June 2006
    Why America must get out of Iraq now.


    Courtesy US DOD

    Withdraw immediately or stay the present course? That is the key question about the war in Iraq today. American public opinion is now decidedly against the war. From liberal New England, where citizens pass town-hall resolutions calling for withdrawal, to the conservative South and West, where more than half of “red state” citizens oppose the war, Americans want out. That sentiment is understandable.

    The prewar dream of a liberal Iraqi democracy friendly to the United States is no longer credible. No Iraqi leader with enough power and legitimacy to control the country will be pro-American. Still, U.S. President George W. Bush says the United States must stay the course. Why? Let’s consider his administration’s most popular arguments for not leaving Iraq.

    If we leave, there will be a civil war. In reality, a civil war in Iraq began just weeks after U.S. forces toppled Saddam. Any close observer could see that then; today, only the blind deny it. Even President Bush, who is normally impervious to uncomfortable facts, recently admitted that Iraq has peered into the abyss of civil war. He ought to look a little closer. Iraqis are fighting Iraqis. Insurgents have killed far more Iraqis than Americans. That’s civil war.

    Withdrawal will encourage the terrorists. True, but that is the price we are doomed to pay. Our continued occupation of Iraq also encourages the killers—precisely because our invasion made Iraq safe for them
    . Our occupation also left the surviving Baathists with one choice: Surrender, or ally with al Qaeda. They chose the latter. Staying the course will not change this fact. Pulling out will most likely result in Sunni groups’ turning against al Qaeda and its sympathizers, driving them out of Iraq entirely.

    Before U.S. forces stand down, Iraqi security forces must stand up. The problem in Iraq is not military competency; it is political consolidation. Iraq has a large officer corps with plenty of combat experience from the Iran-Iraq war. Moktada al-Sadr’s Shiite militia fights well today without U.S. advisors, as do Kurdish pesh merga units. The problem is loyalty.
    To whom can officers and troops afford to give their loyalty? The political camps in Iraq are still shifting. So every Iraqi soldier and officer today risks choosing the wrong side. As a result, most choose to retain as much latitude as possible to switch allegiances. All the U.S. military trainers in the world cannot remove that reality. But political consolidation will. It should by now be clear that political power can only be established via Iraqi guns and civil war, not through elections or U.S. colonialism by ventriloquism.

    Setting a withdrawal deadline will damage the morale of U.S. troops. Hiding behind the argument of troop morale shows no willingness to accept the responsibilities of command.
    The truth is, most wars would stop early if soldiers had the choice of whether or not to continue. This is certainly true in Iraq, where a withdrawal is likely to raise morale among U.S. forces. A recent Zogby poll suggests that most U.S. troops would welcome an early withdrawal deadline. But the strategic question of how to extract the United States from the Iraq disaster is not a matter to be decided by soldiers. Carl von Clausewitz spoke of two kinds of courage: first, bravery in the face of mortal danger; second, the willingness to accept personal responsibility for command decisions. The former is expected of the troops. The latter must be demanded of high-level commanders, including the president.

    Withdrawal would undermine U.S. credibility in the world. Were the United States a middling power, this case might hold some water. But for the world’s only superpower, it’s patently phony. A rapid reversal of our present course in Iraq would improve U.S. credibility around the world. The same argument was made against withdrawal from Vietnam. It was proved wrong then and it would be proved wrong today. Since Sept. 11, 2001, the world’s opinion of the United States has plummeted, with the largest short-term drop in American history. The United States now garners as much international esteem as Russia. Withdrawing and admitting our mistake would reverse this trend. Very few countries have that kind of corrective capacity. I served as a military attaché in the U.S. Embassy in Moscow during Richard Nixon’s Watergate crisis. When Nixon resigned, several Soviet officials who had previously expressed disdain for the United States told me they were astonished. One diplomat said, “Only your country is powerful enough to do this. It would destroy my country.”

    Two facts, however painful, must be recognized, or we will remain perilously confused in Iraq. First, invading Iraq was not in the interests of the United States. It was in the interests of Iran and al Qaeda. For Iran, it avenged a grudge against Saddam for his invasion of the country in 1980. For al Qaeda, it made it easier to kill Americans. Second, the war has paralyzed the United States in the world diplomatically and strategically. Although relations with Europe show signs of marginal improvement, the trans-Atlantic alliance still may not survive the war. Only with a rapid withdrawal from Iraq will Washington regain diplomatic and military mobility. Tied down like Gulliver in the sands of Mesopotamia, we simply cannot attract the diplomatic and military cooperation necessary to win the real battle against terror. Getting out of Iraq is the precondition for any improvement.

    In fact, getting out now may be our only chance to set things right in Iraq. For starters, if we withdraw, European politicians would be more likely to cooperate with us in a strategy for stabilizing the greater Middle East. Following a withdrawal, all the countries bordering Iraq would likely respond favorably to an offer to help stabilize the situation. The most important of these would be Iran. It dislikes al Qaeda as much as we do. It wants regional stability as much as we do
    . It wants to produce more oil and gas and sell it. If its leaders really want nuclear weapons, we cannot stop them. But we can engage them.

    None of these prospects is possible unless we stop moving deeper into the “big sandy” of Iraq. America must withdraw now.

    Lt. Gen. William E. Odom (Ret.) is senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and professor at Yale University. He was director of the National Security Agency from 1985 to 1988.

    http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/odom/odom.html
     
    #1 glynch, May 3, 2006
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  2. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Yeah, Odom's made comments in the past about the failure of Iraq.

    Truer words were never spoken -

    Sadly, the apologists will only see the "X - military guy that hates America" and shrug off anything he has to say.
     
  3. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Posted by glynch:

    "Before U.S. forces stand down, Iraqi security forces must stand up. The problem in Iraq is not military competency; it is political consolidation. Iraq has a large officer corps with plenty of combat experience from the Iran-Iraq war. Moktada al-Sadr’s Shiite militia fights well today without U.S. advisors, as do Kurdish pesh merga units. The problem is loyalty. To whom can officers and troops afford to give their loyalty? The political camps in Iraq are still shifting. So every Iraqi soldier and officer today risks choosing the wrong side. As a result, most choose to retain as much latitude as possible to switch allegiances. All the U.S. military trainers in the world cannot remove that reality. But political consolidation will. It should by now be clear that political power can only be established via Iraqi guns and civil war, not through elections or U.S. colonialism by ventriloquism."


    This statement by Gen. Odom is dead-on, in my opinion, and something too easily overlooked by the pundits, media, and folks around here. This is one of the main things not disbanding the Iraqi Army might have prevented, certainly on the scale we see today. Sure, it's too late to put the genie back in the bottle, but that was an immense blunder by the United States.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  4. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    That retired Lieutenant General is a traitor!.
     
  5. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Sadly, you discount opinion unlike your own offhand and overgeneralize about those who disagree with you.

    glynch, man - strange bedfellows, huh? A guy who oversaw Reagan's relationships with the Contras, Marcos, Pinochet, Duarte, Saddam and others in the 80s is now your boy. That's rich.
     
  6. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Deckard pointed out the part that made me think the most. It may very well be impossible to ever get enough soldiers trained who will have real allegiance to the guys the US wants. Many of them are Iraqi exiles approved by the neocons.

    How is this democracy, by the way?

    I see we are back to probably splitting Iraq up into three parts. I think this was always the fall back position and the neocons would be happy with this.

    The US and Israel hope to make the Kurds a dependency so at least they get some of the oil from a weakened state. Turkey won't be too happy, but maybe they can get some of the oil, too. The Kurds have been betrayed at least twice by the US in major policy reversals that I know of. Before the fall of the Shaw we were backing the Shah of Iran's backing Kurdish independence to harass Iraq. We withdrew this support when we switched to Iraq to oppose Khomeini. Of course, Bush I encourged them to rise up and then be slaughtered by Sadam after Gulf War I. Hard to know if the Kurds will be good boys for the neocons as hoped for.

    On the negative side for the neocons and their paranoid plans of regional and world military domination, Iran has been strengthened.
     
    #6 glynch, May 3, 2006
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  7. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Judging by the response so far to this thread, I would say my statement is quite accurate.
     
  8. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    :confused: What responses are you talking about? C'mon mcmark. Its not accurate to say that those who disagree with you just 'shrug' off his opinion. That someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't think through points counter to their own. It is insulting to insinuate that only 'your side' actually thinks about the issue.
     
  9. thegary

    thegary Member

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    he's talking about the lack of response to this thread by the shrinking number of bush supporters who insinuate that dissent is unpatriotic.
     
  10. basso

    basso Member
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    who has ever said, or implied, such a thing?
     
  11. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Well, no stranger than you having to oppose so much of the military leadership who are free to speak their minds while proclaiming to be a holy arnmchair warrior.
     
  12. thegary

    thegary Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Not really unless you assume those in the military have a homogenous opinion, which they don't (ie I haven't cited anyone that I simulanteously and continuously castigate). OTOH you're now advancing arguments from a person whose entire catalogue of actions you disagree with and ridicule. That's even farther than the last guy (raimondon) whose ideology you mostly disagree with, lol.
     
  14. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Member

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    Everyone has an opinion...Put 20 guys/gals in a room and you'll get 20 different opinions...
     
  15. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I think that is part of the point. Even people I have had serious disagreements WRT military action are saying the same thing I have been saying for years. The action in Iraq was done the wrong way and we need to figure a way to get out of that hellhole sooner rather than later.
     
  16. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Yeah but the a strong majority are in agreement that Iraq was a screw up and not worth it.
     
  17. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    I understand. But saying some of the people that used to be pro-intervention now aren't isn't in itself a reason to change my mind. If it were then I probably hadn't thought out my position to begin with, right? :) Also consider that I don't see any indication that Odom was originally a supporter and now is not - so this point about people changing their minds isn't relevant to his viewpoint. As it stands I haven't seen anything new development that would make me change my opinion that it was the right thing to do, and that an immediate pullout would not be desirable. IMO the recent formation of the new government, coupled with the reports that there is a dialogue between many of the insurgents and the US/new government - is a reason to stay the course. I'm not in favor of indefinite deployment, but I don't know what's changed in the last 30 days that would make one change their mind about the near term future.
     
    #17 HayesStreet, May 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2006

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