Hi Mania As for the Rockets trade for T-MAC, I personally think that we got depth out of the trade eventually, but lost that legit 3rd scoring option. The trade would eventually become T-MAC, Howard, Barry, and James/Alston for Francis, Mobley, and Kato. If you ask me, we traded 2 stars and a log for 1 super star and 3 role players. True one is retired, but none the less, that is what it ended up as at one point. You could be right about role players, but we can realistically expect T-MAC to play what 65 to 70 games. With no legit 3rd option we can expect to win what 25 30 percent of those games. I want home court in the playoffs. We would have to win 50 of 65 games with T-MAC playing to get that. With a legit 3rd option, we can expect to win 50 to 55 percent of those games T-Mac is out meaning we could win closer to 45 out of 65, more reasonable if you ask me. As for your plan of role players, I do not think I have a problem with it. I would hope for a legit 14 or 15 ppg from someone in there. As for the 3 to 4 years thing, there are a lot of factors that lead me to this. After Yao broke his foot, I can’t seem to get Rick Smits out of my mind. I would hate it, but it is possible. Apparently hae has had these issues for a few years there If they return in a serious way Yao could return to MR 17 and 8 with more foot issues. My God I hope not, but you never know. I have also known several people with back problems, and they tend to get worse, not better. I am sure T-MAC has better doctors, but still. If we have a legit 3rd option, we spread the risk out. I want a 3rd option not named Howard that can step in and fill it up. Also a 3rd option takes pressure off T-Mac, and might actually help his back. NO pressure to score 12 points in 30 seconds or whatever it was. I was also going for players that can play multiple positions. With the exception of T-Mac playing a little 2 and Stro at center no one can play multiple positions. We look very bad when players play out of their one position they are good or in some cases below average at. The Atl Trade is an easy fix. 2 separate trades. Head, Stro for AL Henderson, and Childress for 8. I am sure this can be done somehow in the Utah case as well. HAYJON, Ya that is my favorite trade too I would love that trade for someone who is 20 and can jump out of the building. I will call him young Stro JR with an attitude if we get him. Smoothie, I can dream. Honestly if one happened, and we got a player with the MLE, I would be happy MCable HA. I actually stayed up until 4 last night writing this. I probably cut 15 paragraphs out that did not go anywhere but ramble. I could have blown out your record, but I thought this was enough. I like to win I remember reading your first post actually
I can't believe this thread is getting this much respect. I've spent the last few years lurking for a reason. Mostly because I could always learn something about basketball. Just because a thread is long doesn't change the fact that it is just a bunch of terrible trades grouped together. What happened to Clutchfans?
Talking from a talent standpoint I like the Golden State trade. I love the idea of Derek Fisher coming to Houston b/c he brings so many things Houston needs. First and for most, winning attitude. The guy knows what it takes to win. He also has a sort of fiery personality which i think this team needs. Plus his talents fit us perfectly. He has three point range good D and brings a lot of intangibles to the floor. Murphy brings exactly what JVG wants. A four that can shoot the three. He is like a bigger better Scott Padgett based on stats. He is a good rebounder and a good shooter. I wish his D was better but I think on offense his shooting helps T mac and Yao spread the floor excellently. If you can throw in Pietris (sp?) that helps as well b/c we get a big wing man that can help defensively (a sore spot on this ball club). The contracts suck but this team needs a good quick fix and the parts we added this year in my opinion wont get it done. Rafer is a good point but he isn't a championship level point, and Swift is dumb as dirt. Dump these guys for winning attitude and actual b ball skills.
VSpan for JR Smith is a very intriguing idea. However, I have a gut feeling that Vspan will turn out to be a better player than JR Smith. Smith spent last season fighting with his coach and sitting on the bench. That doesn't bode well for JR in my eyes. JVG said he doesn't want to take knuckleheads on the team. JR is getting there. The EG fiasco still brings me bad memories. Vspan led his team to the quarter-final of the Euroleague, and he's an Euroleague allstar. This does bode well for VSpan in my eyes. Again, this is a very very interesting idea. I want to see VSpan in the summer league first before anything else.
You've been lurking for years and this is the thread you speak out against? How is this thread terrible? Specifically. Unrealistic capwise, rosterwise, you have a different idea for the teams direction? Contribute something or go back to lurking. We should be encouraging this.
Nice post. The trades are intriguing, though I have to say personally I don't think getting a third star is the rebuilding process needed, we need good solid role players. We need to have few if any holes to win a championship, and giving away depth (we have some players that would be good subs) for that major player does not seem like the right direction to me. Also, I'm a very firm believer that no matter what, unless we pull off a huge major trade that makes another team look downright stupid (like what Chicago and others did to NY), I do not think we can make this team into a championship team in 1 offseason. We need 2 offseasons. A potential contender yes, but not one that can be expected to win it all. We can get one player in this draft that could become a solid starter in 2 seasons and maybe sign another. Then in next years off season we could potentially get a bit more depth in a deeper draft, and sign some seasoned players fill the remaining starting positions in what will most likely be a very very good free agent class. Lastly, I just wondering what you would think if we could get a good, seasoned starting SF (or if drafted Gay or landed Morrison with a top 3 pick) and moved McGrady to SG? I figured he would be too slow to guard some of SG's, but good enough to stay with most of them. Just wondering...
I was underwhelmed also. I probably wouldn't mind so much if it were written better and included proper punctuation. I think my mind nearly melted trying to read that at 3am.
You are concerned that THEY would reject this deal? There is no way you give up all of that for Gerald Wallace. That is an awful lot for an injured SF with very limited range who only managed 15 ppg on a horrible team. To put that in perspective, it was 3 more ppg than JUWAN HOWARD managed to score for our team, and his average was probably pretty close to Wallace's when Yao and TMac were out (ie when he was a #1 option like Wallace). I would not be comfortable trading 2 picks plus stro and head for a guy that is giving me Juwan Howard numbers, no matter how athletic he is. Hell, Stro and Head are already athletic and we can use the #8 to get someone who will probably do everything that Wallace would do for us. PASS.
Exactly. That is too much for Gerald Wallace. I think it wasnt a smart desicion for Charlotte to base their team around him in the first place. He was a very underrated player before charlotte picked him up, but now with the injuries and all, i think he has become quite overrated.
Here is my proposal: First, a trade... Stromile Swift for James Jones (Phoenix) and the #27 pick. The reasoning here is that if Stromile is going to EVER be anything in the NBA, it looks like it's going to be on a team where he can get up and down the court with a point guard who can make the game easy for him. Phoenix obviously falls under this category. So let's say that Pheonix is interested in Stromile considering his potential in their system, Amare's questionable knee, the fact that Brian Grant will be in his last season (if he exercises his player option), and the fact that Stro's contract is only 2 more years at average money. If he doesn't work out, they can dangle him at the end of next season as an expirer "with potential!" All in all it's a pretty low risk, high reward situation for them. Of course, they'll be giving up James Jones in the process, and although he's been good for them, he's not exactly going to be eating into the SG/SF minutes too much with Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, and Shawn Marion in the rotation. He's a good gunner off the bench for them, but so is Eddie House, and he's making less than 1 million per next year. In the grand scheme of things, taking a one-season look at Swift's potential in their system just might outweigh James Jones playing behind the 3 guys I just mentioned. The 27th pick was thrown in because I don't think the salaries match up. One reason I don't think Phoenix would mind so much is that they have the 21st pick anyway. In a "weak" draft, they may not want to have to pay 2 guaranteed contracts anyway. NOW it's time to draft... Here are our picks after the Stro/J.Jones trade as well as who I would select (if available, of course): 8th (estimated): Brandon Roy [please, God, let him be there ] 27th: Nick Fazekas 32nd: Dee Brown Next is free agency... First, I'd bring Vasillis Spanoulis over with part of the MLE...probably a little over half of it, or 3.5 mil (estimated). Then I'd pick up Quintel Woods for the remainder of the MLE...probably about 2.5 mil. In addition, I would try and get Hayes, Frahm, and Bogans to return for the league minimum. If Sura is going to be able to play, Bogans can take a hike. So when it's all said and done, this is what it looks like: Rafer Alston | Dee Brown | Vasillis Spanoulis Brandon Roy | Luther Head | Quintel Woods | Richie Frahm Tracy McGrady | James Jones | Sura (possibly Bogans instead) Juwan Howard | Chuck Hayes | Nick Fazekas Yao Ming | Dikembe Mutombo Let's see now...have we taken care of our needs? Well, JVG has his 3 PG's now. You've got a pass first veteran in Rafer, an extremely quick spark plug type backup in Dee, and a fiery offensive-oriented Euro in Vasillis. Pretty young and versatile mix. I like that Dee would be vocal and energetic, and Vasillis would be...well...European We also picked up the shooting PF we needed. I knooooow that a lot of you guys want Novak, or Pittsnogle, but I feel that Fazekas is a better fit. We don't necessarily need a 3-point shooting PF, as long as the guy has RANGE. I'm talking about 17 or 18 feet, which is more than enough to spread the floor, and although his 3pt % isn't great it's still good for a big man and will have to be respected. The real reason I like him is because he can rebound the damn ball (imagine that) and he can block shots (without raking in the fouls). Those abilities coupled with his height (6'11") qualify him for minutes at backup C that I would not feel good about giving to Pittsnogle, and sure as hell not Novak. Did we get younger, longer, and more athletic on the perimeter? You bet your ass we did. Brown, Head, Spanoulis, Roy, Woods, and Jones are all 22-26 years old. Roy is 6'6" and a talented defender. Jones is 6'8", can play the SG or SF, and is a solid defender. Woods is also 6'8", can play the SG or SF (even PG at times), and is an athletic freak who could blossom into a shutdown defender under JVG. Last but not least, can we shoot? Well, Brown, Fazekus, and Roy were all capable 3 point shooters in college. Both Fazekus and Roy shot over .500 from the field overall in their senior campaigns. James Jones is a 3 point specialist as we all know, and Woods has shown good percentages when given minutes. Frahm is pretty deadly when he gets clean looks, as he was able to show on a couple of different occasions before his hip injury. Sura also shot a respectable 3pt % in 04-05. Luther is certainly capable, but he hit the rookie wall hard and his 3 point shot was in a coma for a couple of months. I expect him to have that worked out by the start of next season. Well...that pretty much sums up my first try at reworking the roster. It's all pretty realistic in my opinion, IF the Stromile trade could happen and if Roy is somehow available at our first pick. One would think that the other 2 picks, signing VSpan and signing Q. Woods are all very realistic.
Atlanta can lose Al Harrington but they can still retain him even though he is a UFA. This draft isn't very strong and the Hawks probably won't be interested in the 8th pick,Stro,Head. Skip might help free Joe Johnson but his main problem is his lack of shooting. Number 8 straight up for Childress might work but not likely for Josh Smith. I think the idea of giving the 8th and 32 for J.R.Smith plus number 12 or the 15th is more realistic. V Span for J.R.Smith might work but VSpan is an unknown for them and he may not want to come here just yet. I think we might need to add the 32 pick for that deal to possibly work out. I want to see VSpan first in the preseason. I wouldn't offer a deal for Gerald Wallace. GSW can help fill needs but I prefer a laterally quicker 4 who can rebound, defend and shoot. Murphy can rebound and shoot but he isn't a good defender and isn't quick enough to cover for Yao's weaknesses on defense.
Since this sort of thread opens the door for offseason scenarios: As far as Atlanta is concerned: I think Al Harrington will likely walk. He has already expressed interest in the Bulls. Maybe it's just leverage, but he can get a nice contract out of Chicago, and that team won't have to give up any picks or players to get him. The Bulls are far stronger than the Hawks. He won't have to wait around for them to put together a trade. The Hawks may have cap space when he walks; Luther Head would be a perfect compliment to JJohnson (switching at the 1 and 2 on offense and defense), and Stro can play 4 and 5. OR Foye will be available at #8. So maybe we can swap for the #4 pick (if that's where Atlanta ends up). Jamaal Magloire doesn't fit in with the Bucks (they want to go uptempo) and so why not use our Moochie trade exception to help send Stro/Luther/#32 to the Bucks, Magloire to native Toronto (will have cap space, and have expressed interest in moving their lottery pick) and we end up with the #5? (Send us Eric Williams, too, if the Raptors want to open up their salary cap for re-signing Mike James....they also have mentioned waiving Williams' last-year salary.) I don't think Tracy is going anywhere because we have to cross our fingers and hope he'll be healthy.
Not sure if this has been suggested yet, but.. the Bulls need help inside next to Chandler. I don't think Swift is ideal for them honestly--too similar to Chandler and doesn't bring what they want. But if they were willing.. AND if the Bulls drop from #2 to #4 or #5.. then our 8 and Swift (and i'd be willing to toss in 32 too if necessary) for their 4/5 and 16...and I guess cap filler. Puts us in prime position to draft Roy...and still get a PF that would be decent enough (i.e. Shelden... I don't love the pick, but it's a value pick that would work next to Yao at #16) Thoughts?
ahp007007: I should rephrase my thoughts about the T-Mac trade; we lost depth in the trade because we traded away two 40 mpg ironmen for one 40 mpg superstar. We also traded away Jim Jackson, another 40 minute warrior that season. Howard and Cato played essentially the same amount of minutes, so I'd call that a wash. When we had our huge winning streaks at the tail end of 2005, it was because we'd managed to find a combination of players in Mike James/Bob Sura/Jon Barry/David Wesley who could give us the 40 minutes of quality production we had lost by trading Francis and Mobley (T-Mac took Jackson's minutes at the 3). Now, one year later, we don't have the depth necessary to fill these backcourt minutes. To remedy the situation, we need to either acquire a collection of talented 25 mpg players, or another 40 minute wonder. I believe that it will be cheaper, easier and less risky to acquire the former, and by shooting for having a well rounded bench of young emerging players, you give yourself the opportunity to find a player who exceeds expectations, perhaps uncovering a 40 minute ironman in the process. To the people who don't appreciate the thread, I can understand; fantasy offseasons certainly aren't for everyone, just as mock drafts and trade deadline speculations are generally rather foolish without any inside information or extensive scouting. Still, most people with some understanding of the salary cap will get the itch to try and improve the team; it's a fruitless exercise in mental masturbation, with no benefit except to relieve the stress of a long, painful season, but nevertheless, feels rather satisfying. Let those who want to engage in such an activity do so; and more importantly, together in one place, to reduce the congestion of the bbs. The posts might not be of high quality, or brim with realism or organization, but sometimes this kind of mental masturbation can get a little messy.
Wallace is a very underrated defender. Look at his stats, #1 in SPG, #11 in BPG. Defensive stats doesn't lie, no matter what team you are on. Right now our best perimeter defender is an aging Wesley. That's why I think Wallace would be a good pick up. I agree that he is not a great offensive player, but he makes it up with his defense and rebounding. If JVG can shape him in to a poor man's Artest, then we are golden. That been said, I do agree we would be giving up too much for him if we mix in our picks. But I would trade for him in a heart beat if we only have to give up Head and Stro.
BUMP Just wanted to keep this thread at the top of the forum so hopefully people will post their thoughts in here and we can avoid flooding this place with seperate off-season threads.
WTF. If this thread already is already off the first page then who cares if another "off-season" thread takes it's place. And this thread is hardly an all-purpose offseason suggestions topic. That first post is a doozy of a post drawing all the attention of the discussion. Maybe you should just start an all-purpose, catch all, offseason thread instead of forcing it into here, when that wasn't the purpose of this thread in the first place.
