I'm not disagreeing with you either DOD. Shaq is dominant, and his points count the same as everyone elses, and should not be asterisked or italicized or anything else. My point is simple: It is my humble opinion, taken for what it is worth, that Shaq's size & strength provides his dominance, and he has less "moves" and "skills" than similar dominant big men of other eras, including but not limited to Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and most definitely Hakeem Olajuwon. ------------------ Bring It!!
I think you guys should just say this. In his career, Dream has dominated when it mattered...DOMINATED not just outplayed: Ewing Robinson Shaq Kareem Barkley Malone All of those players were great players when Dream got to them. ALL of them are considered to be in the top 50 of ALL TIME. And Dream smashed them ALL. For those who want to argue that Shaq was too young, well remember that he came second (I think or he might of won)in scoring back in 95. He was dominant already so there is no excuse of him being too young. And Kareem was schooled left and right during the mid 80's when he was winning championships so there is no excuse for him either. Who has Shaq outplayed? An old Hakeem last year? Rik Smits? Garnett who weighs 100 pounds less and doesn't play center? What happened when Shaq went up against the other great big man in his conference last year? I believed he got swepted and outplayed, didn't he? Duncan had alot of help with Robinson guarding Shaq and Duncan being free to roam and play. But, Shaq didn't average 40 against Robinson past his prime and Dream did it when Robinson won an MVP in his prime!! I love Shaq. I do. I think he's great. But the day he says from his mouth that he is better than Dream was, I will b**** slap upside his bald head. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Almu (edited June 14, 2000).]
I wonder if Shaq didn't get away with murder, if he'd be as "good"? The reason he's so dominant is because he can be. People used to stand in and attempt to take charges against him, but they were never called. Now hardly anyone tries to do that. ------------------ Get your proper swirve on...visit www.swirve.com (coming in mid-June, for now visit www.eesite.com)
Almu, While I agree with your post, Shaq has never been as dominant as he has this year. You can't compare the Shaq of this year with the ones of the past. He's been injured in the past and played injured. Also, when you compared him to Hakeem, from what I remember those two basically neutralized each other on offense when they battled in Hakeem's prime. I'm thinking of the championship runs specifically. Shaq also has added jump hooks and spin moves around defenders to his game. These are moves he didn't have back then when he was nothing more than a lumbering dunk machine (which he technically still is, I guess. LOL!). On defense, it doesn't seem Shaq will ever be Hakeem's equal nor ever approach his skills. All this being said, I'll stick to my guns in stating that Shaq is more dominant on offense than any other center in the past 20-30 or so years. I think Shaq is dorky in terms of personality and probably should foul out of the first half of most games, but he's still one hell of a player. ------------------ Just shut up and post
I'd be crazy not to agree. Of course you're right. I just thought you were saying that somehow since his points were "ugly", he somehow shouldn't deserve as much credit for being dominating. That I'd disagree with. ------------------ Just shut up and post
As of right now, I would say Dream has to be considered a shade better than Oneal in the all time list. As others have said, it is because of his defense. But some of the other comments are ridiculous. If Hakeem was only 6' 4", he wouldn't have been in the NBA. Nobody ever said Dream has done things no other player had done before, what they said was he did things no other player HIS SIZE had ever done before. Likewise, if Jordan was only 5' 9", he wouldn't have been in the NBA either. If Carl Lewis was built to run like the average man, nobody would have heard of him. It makes no sense to discredit the dominance of an athlete simply because he is physically unusual. Like it or not, size and athletic gifts play into individual and team success in sports-which is the bottom line any athlete should be judged by. Also, Dream outplayed Shaq in 95, and Ewing in 94. But I wouldn't say he dominated either player (especially Shaq who played him better on both ends than anyone in that period). If I recall both players matched Dream in rebounds and scored within 5-10 points PG as Dream did (Dream shutdown neither player). Dream beat them, but “dominated” may be a stretch. Now Dream did dominate Robinson in his prime, no question about that. Also the argument cuts both ways. Shaq totally obliterated an aging Dream last year, Dream beat a "green" Oneal. I see no favor to either player in these comparisons. To conclude, if Shaq leads his team to 1 or 2 more titles playing like he has during this years run, I might call it a tie between him and Dream, but he has to prove it some more. If Shaq can get 4 or 5 titles (mainly do to his play, not Kobe’s), then he probably should via for being a notch better than Dream. ------------------ "The Rockets were ahead of the Suns by 20 late in game 2 of the series, but when the going got tough, we just Pippened . We would not be done in the series though." [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited June 15, 2000).]
