No doubt he's a great player and had a great season, and he's definitely "in the discussion", so no one is saying that he doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath, because clearly he does. However, I am adament that no one deserves the MVP this season like Nash does, there's no single player in the league that has affected the outcome of an entire season as Nash has. I mean is it even an argument at this point? Look at the players around this guy, he's turned them into an incredible offensive machine the likes of which we have not seen in the NBA since may be Magic in the 1980's. To me, it's not even close: Nash for MVP, it would be a travesty if he doesn't win it. He's the single most impactful player in the league, I think that is the definition of an MVP. If you take Nash off the Suns, they would have easily the worse win-loss differential in the league. Here's the bottom line: I wasn't very convinced of Nash being an MVP last season, and thought Shaq was deserving of it. However, Nash is having a much better season than he did last and is doing even a more improbable job than he did last season when he has Amare terrifying opponents down low.
How about a guy that leads his team to a top five record in the league with their leading scorer playing only two games all season and the third leading scorer from last season getting traded while increasing his own scoring by 4 ppg? That would be Steve Nash... Of course, this comes up in every MVP debate. I like to call it the A-Rod debate. Great stats on a mediocre team or good stats on a great team?
Put Shawn Marion on the Lakers and put Lamar Odom on the Suns and the two teams swap playoff positions. Nash does a lot for the Suns, but come on, Marion is a beast on both ends of the court. He is a possible MVP candidate as well. We've seen that the Suns can still play strong without Amare, but I'd like to see what happens to them without Marion.
That's BS, and you know it. Marion and Odom could switch position and would be in the exact scenario the other player is dealing with now. Odom's production would go through the roof, while Marion's would decline and he would likely b**** and moan about Kobe not including his teammates. Marion wouldn't be nearly the push-over Odom is, which is why despite all their problems Odom is actually a good fit with Kobe, because he won't whine and bit** everytime Kobe passes him up and puts up a 30-footer instead. Marion and Odom have comparable skills, and both can't be the primary players for a good team, but they're very good and under-rated complimentary players. Nash is what makes that entire franchise what it is, and didn't Marion and Amare suck it up one season before Nash came into town and missed the playoffs? I might be wrong, but I remember something like that taking place.
if odom had a guy like nash creating for him, then he might be an mvp canidate. if kobe and the lakers won out the rest of the season, then he could be an mvp canidate. otherwise he doesn't stand a chance to win the award.
I don't see how anyone can argue that odom is better than marion. marion produced without nash, there is no way, no how you can make that argument. you lose all credability. shawn marion's numbers have gone up because he has to basically be the suns' best big man, and he has stepped up to the challenge. but marion has averaged 21 in his career before, the dude has increased his rebounds by three per game, how does nash get credit for that?
There's no doubt Odom is worse than Marion. Marion is a better rebounder, better scorer, and better defender. The only advantage Odom has is his passing ability. Marion is an all star without Nash, Odom isn't even close. Swap Nash and Kobe, Suns will still top the division for sure. Lakers? I don't know. Nash didn't have success in Mavs, and Lakers are lacking shooters barring Cook, I don't see Nash going anywhere.
While I do think Kobe belongs in the discussion, I don't see how anybody could call him a slam dunk: 1. Wins. The voters have been pretty consistent about this over the years. Who was the last MVP whose team fell short of 50 wins? It must have been ages ago. 2. Stats. Kobe is obviously the scoring champ, but his overall stat line doesn't blow away the competition. Lebron and Wade score almost as much, have much better a FG%, a lot more assists, and a lot more rebounds. 3. How much does he help his team? Last year, when he missed about 15-20 games, the Lakers won at about the same rate. While he's having a better year this year, I don't buy the "Lakers would suck without him" argument. 4. Clutch play. Kobe hits a lot of big shots, but his percentages leave something to be desired: - http://82games.com/random12.htm - http://www.82games.com/0506/05LAL7E.HTM So, the case for Kobe really boils down to a scoring championship and a truely historic single game performance. I don't think it's quite enough.
That makes no sense. The Suns offense works because of Nash's play. It's almost incorrect to say that Nash plays well due to the Suns offense. And no I'm not saying that the only reason Suns are so good is JUST because of Nash but it certainly is the BIGGEST reason.
So, you're narrow mindedly thinking on offensive terms in my comparison of Odom & Marion. Does Nash also make Marion a first team all NBA defender? Marion is greater than Odom by ten times all around. And he's a 100 times better defender than odom. He's quicker, he's more athletic, he's a better rebounder, he's a better 3 point shooter, he plays with more heart. The ONLY thing Odom does better than Marion is pass. Nash is great, the best pg in the league, but Nash doesn't help Marion play defense and he damn sure doesn't help rebound.
Kobe should be the MVP this year. Nash is a much more likeable guy and an amazing talent (All-NBA First Team)...but Kobe has had the better season.
Players who deserve the MVP over Kobe: 1. Steve Nash- 20ppg 10apg w/o Amare!! Everyone was skeptical with this team since they lost Q, JJ, and Amare. The Suns are #2 in the West and it's all due to Nash. 2. Lebron James- 31ppg 7rpg 7apg. The Cavs are #4 in the East and just when you think they might choke, Lebron starts going nuts.
its funny that you say the suns are number two in the west because that's misleading, just like it would be like saying the nuggets are third. the top two teams in the west are Dallas and SA, but unlike baseball and football the NBA doesn't reseed its teams. the suns are gonna be lucky to play sa in the third round if they make it, but it probably won't matter but its kind of messed up that Dallas and SA have to play each other in round two if they both make it.
The top 3 MVP candidates should be Nowitzki, Nash, and Duncan, because they are the players that are leading their teams to be the best (I don't think Detroit is dependent on any one player as much as these other teams, not even Billups). I know people talk about Duncan having a down season, but he is still the #1 player on both ends of the court on the best team in the Conference. I predict a Nash repeat, because voters will talk about Nash leadig the Suns without Amare (even though Nash made Amare and Amare has stunk it up playing without Nash). Where I an MVP voter, my vote would probably go to Duncan, with a second place vote for Nowitzki, and a 3rd for Nash.
the last thing I will say about kobe is this, kobe has proven he will defer to other teamates when he has good players. the last year they went to the finals, they had a good shot of winning, malone didn't stay healthy and that killed them against detroit. but malone did have a decent season playing with kobe. payton had a better season than he is having in la, and for a guy who was probably the fourth best player on that team, he still managed 14 points and 5 assists.
If they give Kobe the MVP this year they need to retroactively award T-Mac the MVP for his 2002-03 season. 32.1 ppg / 6.5 rbg / 5.5 apg / 1.7 stl / .8 blk / 2.6 to / 46% fg / 39% 3P / 30.3 PER Magic record: 42-40 Top 5 players based on games started (out of a possible 82): McGrady - 74 Shawn Kemp - 54 Pat Garrity - 53 Jacque Vaughn - 48 Mike Miller - 39 (traded in Feb) And that's your top starters, imagine the rest of this CBA supporting cast. No wonder he has a bad back. Kobe 2005/06 34.8 ppg / 5.3 rbg / 4.6 apg / 1.8 stl / 4. blk / 3.2 to / 45% fg / 34% 3P / 27.4 PER Lakers current record: 40-35 Top 5 players based on games started (out of a possible 75): S. Parker - 75 K. Bryant - 73 L. Odom - 73 C. Mihm - 56 B. Cook - 44 Impressive numbers combined with team mediocrity has never been rewarded with an MVP before and they shouldn't start now because it's Kobe Bryant with the Lakers... pure bull$hit. Lebron, Wade, Nash, Dirk and Billups are more worthy.
Okay, the Suns are technically #3 in the West w/ the 4th best record in the NBA, atrocious isn't it? That doesn't take anything, if anything, away from my argument. If you look back at the beginning of the season, nobody (including myself) gave this team a chance, especially when Amare went out. Nash is tied for 5th in the NBA in double-doubles. His team is #3 in the West, 4th best in the NBA, and let's face it, it's basically all because of Nash.
actually, they're 3rd best. and the team at #2 is the real problem with everyone thinking nash is so uber-valuable. the mavs are #2 in the west, and before a bunch of injuries, they contended for the best record in the whole league. anyone remember who the mavs let sign away with no compensation 2 years ago? oh yeah, uver-MVP steve nash. and yet the mavs have actually gotten better (even after also giving away finley) since nash left. if nash is so amazing at making everyone better, then what happened in dallas? and if you say the coach, then that would be just as applicable to the suns as d'antoni came along just when nash did and implemented a very good system that makes nash look as good as he possibly can. there is just no way a guy like nash (or billups), who isn't really in the conversation for best overall player, should get the mvp. and DD, nash is not better than kobe. it's possible the suns would win less by virtue of kobe not fitting the system better, but no way the lakers win more with nash. i don't even like dirk, but the mvp seems to mostly go to the best player on the best (or almost best) team. the best 3 teams are the spurs, pistons, and mavs. the pistons nor spurs have had a single player standout as much as dirk on the mavs. by past standards, dirk should be getting this award. if we're going by best player, it's between kobe, wade, and lebron. lebron has just gone off the last 6 games and his assists advantage on kobe now surpasses kobe's point advantage on lebron. he might have the best pure stats in the league. lebron wins rebounding, kobe wins defense and clutchness (though lebron has gotten much better). wade is so efficient and also plays D and is right there with kobe (few points plus more assists plus a little more efficiency and same defense and clutchness makes them very close). as for fg%, wade and lebron have kobe beat but on adjusted fg% they're all fairly close together. i might give it to lebron for the way he's exploded lately, but the league and voters don't seem ready to accept lebron as a real mvp candidate. SM, duncan cannot be the mvp. he is just not close to the best player in the league this year. it would be unholy to give a 75% duncan who has played like a 75% duncan the mvp. lets put it this way. duncan is having the worst season of his career and yet the spurs are on pace to have their best season ever. it's almost impossible to argue that's because of duncan when much better individual seasons have not led to this many wins. they are just a machine in terms of their play and it's not all duncan. they haven't even gotten much of a season from ginobili and they're still rolling thanks to parker and their system. i'd probably vote - 1. lebron 2. dirk 3. kobe 4. wade 5. nash
A team that consists of Raja Bell,Boris Diaw,James Jones, Eddie House and Shawn'I can't create my own shot' Marion is on pace for 50+ wins people!--all because of Nash. This guy should be getting a percentage of each of the contract extensions his teammates will be getting thanks to him leading them to career seasons. Marion is great, but he's the ultimate garbage player--a superstar garbage player. But if he's your sole offensive option then you're in trouble because the man can't create for himself. Nash for MVP this season, Kobe second. The talent around Kobe is pathetic, LeBron has Drew Gooden,Z and soon will have Larry Hughes running with him. These guys are proven NBA players, Kobe's been carrying Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and hot/cold Lamar Odom (who i believe has the talent to carry a team just not the testicualr fortitude). Dirk winning MVP will make me throw up.
