My bad yo- I meant to say unselfish. I should have caught that. ANyways, I was saying the guy who thought he was selfish was mad and smoking crack or something...so I agree with all you guys who said he is unselfish, and I htink the most UNselfish of any drafted player. ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
Oh Lord.....any of the Fizer nay-sayers in here must not have been catching his games this past year. Selfish???? That could not be further from the truth. Tinsley and Nurse had great years as well as a result of what Fizer created. They were both beneficiaries of the zoning, doubling and tripling of Fizer. Maybe Fizer himself didn't pass them the ball, but it got there, and they got their shots. Tinsley averaged 11 ppg and 6.59 apg. Nurse had 12.5 ppg and 2.16 apg. Might I also add that Nurse shot 99 of 234 (the most on the team) from the 3 pt. line for .423? 41 assists in 37 games? Sure...but Fizer was their main scoring threat at 22.8 ppg for the season. He shot .582 from the field as well. So one can hardly argue for him to pass the ball with a scoring average and a FG% like that. SHOOT THE BALL MARCUS! He also is not a shabby rebounder at 7.7 for the season. I cannot see any weak links in his game. I think he will be a better rebounder in the NBA as well. Fizer is an all around solid player. AND he has range, can shoot from 20 and in (shot 36% from the arc). Screw the height issue. This boy has game. I watched a lot of Marcus Fizer in the NCAA's this past year. He will be a success. I would welcome him to Houston with open arms. ------------------ HOOP-T ------------------ [This message has been edited by HOOP-T (edited July 06, 2000).]
I guess I'm the guy who said he was selfish... oh wait... I never said he was selfish..... who's on the crack? Read the post. What I said was do we need another guy who's going to take a lot of shots - meaning another scorer. I know full well that Fizer is an outstanding scorer at the college level and has all the tools to be a good scorer at the pro level. But can he rebound? Can he play D? Is he too small? And before people start whining about "height doesn't matter" and crap like that, let me tell you that it does! You tell me how many 6'7 PF's there are starting in the NBA today. You tell me in the last 10 years how many 6'7 PF's there have been who have been majorly successful. Barkley. Not bad. One. There's rules and there's exceptions to rules. I'm sure a lot of people are HOPING that Fizer will be an exception, but to say he will be a stud or a star or great or anything like that is crazy talk. 2 good examples, Clarence Weatherspoon and Corliss Williamson. Both were outstanding players with heart and desire in college. And sure they play the same way in the NBA, but they're just too small. IT makes them a defensive liability. The opposition coach coesn't miss it, he sends his 6'10 PF into the post, passes him the ball and watches him make ridiculously easy hooks or face up jumpers that he can easily shoot over the smaller man. Say that's crazy, but if it's so crazy then how come it's true? Is THAT what the rockets need? We did well offensively last season. We averaged 99.5 PPG - that's pretty good! But defensively we averaged 100.3PPG - that's REALLY BAD! So what do we need to add? Someone who can come in and give us another offensive threat? Or someone who can come in and give us sturdier defense. Sure I'd love to get all that in one package, but we didn't. Now trading Cato (whether or not you like it he is our best interior intimidator) for a short guy who hasn't got outstanding athleticism and who doesn't rebound tremendously well - doesn't make sense. Ok, it helps our offense, Fizer would be great, plays the screen and roll and can hit the jumper, or he gets into the post and scores in there - he's an effective offensive player, but the problem is that he would be taking shots that other players used to take. Maybe he'd improve our offense by 1ppg -that'd be outstanding! But trading Cato for him would make our defense all the more thin! Of course saying Fizer would improve our offense is assuming that he'll be a star offensive player in the NBA, something that is NOT PROVEN. Just because he scored 22PPG in college means naught. Dan Langhi scored 22PPG in college - we all know he isn't going to score big time - why is it that Fizer is guaranteed to? Sure Fizer seems to have a game that is better suited to the pros and a better pro body than Langhi, but once again, at 6'7 he IS undersized and historically undersized PF's HAVE STRUGGLED. Anyway, enough of my ranting. You guys are going to jump on me and be all "take Fizer take Fizer" - well that's fine with me, sure he's an upgrade at PF, but there's NO WAY Cato is being traded for him. If we can get Fizer for Thomas then that's great - Thomas is also too small and we would in no way worsen ourselves defensively (in fact Fizer has quicker lateral movement than KT which would help a great deal!) - so send KT and Drew (he's now expendable). But in the long run Fizer is not the answer at PF and is NOT the right fit for this team. How does it benefit us to improve ourselves in one area and weaken ourselves in 2 others? One more thing, as for having no post presence, Indiana doesn't have a genuine post threat and they seemed to make the NBA finals..... ------------------ [This message has been edited by DrNuegebauer (edited July 10, 2000).]
Indiana is also a veteran team, with a big man who'll get 10-10 down low (Dale Davis) and Smits is a decent scorer when healthy. They've got a deep bench, and are a well coached, veteran team, with good chemistry. ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
DrNu, You bring up some good points, and I agree size is very important for a PF. But I'll tell you another guy very similar in college stats and stature and skills to Fizer who is good, Larry Johnson. And LJ was pretty tough until is back problems. However, like LJ, I don't think Fizer is another Barkley, but I do think Fizer will be a cut above Corliss or Witherspoon, and maybe as good as LJ. Basically, the Big Nasy and Spoon aren't bad players, but they would be pretty good starters with a little better jump shot and ball handling skills, which I think Fizer has. If I could get Fizer for Cato I would do it. Think of it this way, Fizer has about as much chance as being as good as LJ as Cato does to be a Theo Ratliff or John (in his prime) Salley . And I would take LJ in his prime for a defensive oriented solid 4/5 player in a second. I just think there is too much talent to pass up if we could get Fizer, even if it leaves you a whole at the 5 (especially given we don't know Cato for sure will be a consistent player). ------------------ "The Rockets were ahead of the Suns by 20 late in game 2 of the series, but when the going got tough, we just Pippened . We would not be done in the series though."
SS, maybe the LJ comparisons are good (isn't he trying to play SF now?) - I think Larry had a few more hops in his prime than Marcus does, that's pretty important, not all important but pretty important. We'll have to agree to disagree on Fizer, let's see how he pans out anyway, it'll be interesting - I'll wear the humiliation if he's fantastic!!! ------------------
Yeah I think Fizer dishing a lot would have really helped Iowa State ------------------ Will Work for Clutch 101 Book
For moestavern..not sure of your point. My comment was made for those claiming Fizer was "unselfish" and then proceeding to reinforce this notion by quoting his shooting stats. The reality is twofold: becoming a good passer starts with a mindset and develops through experience. (I just don't see this in Marcus Fizer - IState's Go to Guy). Secondly, (and most importantly) whatever the current price tag is for him to be a Rocket is WAY to steep a price to pay. Those of you who love his game, tell me what you would be willing to give up and then ask yourself if Jerry Krause will take the deal. ------------------ GATER
Id be willing to give up Kelvin Cato and Carlos Rogers. Hell, Id also throw in Walt to, as this would free up more space for the following year. That way we could still court Webber and then also go after a FInley or Rashard (if he sings one year), plus have a chance to get an actual center (Pryzbilla--hahaha) in the draft. Would Chicago take Cato and Los. If the Oneal deal doesnt go down, especially with the apparent inability of CHicago to use its free cap room, I think Krause would make the deal. I doubt he wants Walt though. ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
You guys are trying to double and triple team me into submission!! OK - Here are some upcoming dates where we can get a little preview of Marcus Fizer and a hint of if the Bulls are really going to use him at the 3: http://www.sportstalk.com/nba/slmania/rocky/index.shtml Unfortunately, the Chicago v. Houston matchup is not televised but Chi v. Utah will be. C'mon now, JayZ has put Cato, 'Los and the Wizard on the table to tempt Krause. There could be $ issues as Cato and Walt would eat into McGrady/Jones FA$. 2 Rocket problems -1)depth chart at the 5: Dream (if he can go a full season), Pig, Collier and 2)who starts at the 3?. (Rashard IS a long shot). Again I ask those that say Fizer belongs here - what can the Rocks put on the table to get him here? ------------------ GATER
Gator, Hakeem, Barkley, Duncan and Malone all learned how to be "unselfish". Not saying Fizer will be near that level, but these are go to guys who learned to pass very well and make the players around them better. I think the key to being "unselfish" is being able to see the floor, anticipate where your players and your opponents will be, and being an intense competitor. You could argue K-mart was equally as competitive, but NO low post player that I saw coming out had the floor sense of Fizer. That is why I didn't buy the argument Fizer is selfish, in fact his court awareness and effort may be his most important strengths. If you want to pick on Fizer for weaknessess you might try his lack of height for a pro PF or potential lack of quickness for a SF, but I wouldn't start with his intangibles. I still think he will be a very good player despite his physical limitations (guys like Barkley, LJ, Adrian Dantley and Mark Aguire have been effective low post players despite modest height), and will do very well in the league. I would take my chances with him in a heartbeat. ------------------ "The Rockets were ahead of the Suns by 20 late in game 2 of the series, but when the going got tough, we just Pippened . We would not be done in the series though."
