Seriously, if someone can answer my trivia question, it should kill half of the argument here. And why is it someone would list Alston's name together with Nash and Kidd is beyound me.
i can't even believe you typed that. seriously, have you not followed the nba at all the last 15 years or so? SF already pointed out the pure pg ratio, but i'll go him 5 years better. name a pass-first, pure pg who has won a championship in the last 15 years? the list is still: avery johnson-1999 that's 15 years and 5 different franchises (and probably 7 different teams since the spurs and bulls were different (except for the stars) in their separate title runs) and it doesn't figure to change this year as billups, parker, and terry are the current front runners with wade basically being the pg of the other title contender (maybe jwill could somehow be added to the list as he is probably considered a pass-first pg, but he doesn't run the offense, wade does). the suns aren't going to win the title. so how, if only 1 has done it in 15 years, is a "true, traditional, cliche PG" better for winning a championship? maybe it doesn't necessarily make them worse, but that's damn bad evidence to say it makes them better. as for the rest of the thread, i would rather have james than rafer, now or with yao and tmac. however, anyone who says we would be solidly in the playoffs with james instead of where we are is being stupid. that would take about 8 or so extra wins right now, and about 10 over the course of the season. role players are not 10 win difference makers, especially not over other role players. maybe we add 3 wins. that's still significant as it could be the difference in home-court for a particular round, but it's not season altering. we could just be a little less far out of the playoffs. for the record, i don't hate what alston brings to the team nor is he bad or has he underperformed. he was brought in to distribute, and when everyone was healthy, he was getting 8, 9, 10 assists regularly. granted, most of our run was against weak teams (as someone's earlier post noted), but he's done what you would think rafer alston would do. but he hasn't helped us spread the floor for yao, and he hasn't been a scoring option when we needed one, and he hasn't played good defense. when you've got superstars who can get others shots, that's what you need, shooting and defense and a 3rd option. not a pass-first, set up the offense pg. and based on history, i don't really see how that can be argued. as for MR. MEOWGI's presumption that with james our offense was stale and led to the downfall in game 7, that doesn't really explain our very efficient offense for nearly the entire time james was with us.
Why are we still even talking about that one game? The Rockets stunk as a team that game. Sura, James, McGrady, Barry, the whole squad was brick city and sucked, just like last night (in which alston managed a whopping 4 assists) . If we want to get down to 1 game comparisons, without James scoring we lose game 6 and don't get to game 7 - therefore, blah blah blah.
Anybody who wants Mike James on the Rockets at the expense of Rafer Alston must have never played basketball...maybe think about it this way...who would you rather have shooting the ball Mike James or Yao and TMac...sure James will put up more points than Rafer, nobody's debating that but Alston does exactly what the Rockets need and thats give the ball to Yao and TMac...we can attribute atleast some of Yao's development to Rafer getting him the ball when he's open...I dont know how many times I watched James and Sura last year struggle to get the entry pass into Yao when he was open and by the time they figured out a way to get it in there Yao had already lost his position. Not to mention Alston is younger and signed longterm when James was going to walk after this year....our team is not goin anywhere this year, look at it in terms of the future. Mike James is NOT a starting player on a championship caliber team...N-O-T...no way a team with Mike James starting every goes deep into the playoffs, he's a good bench player on a good team, thats it, Alston has the ability to run an offense that allows him to fit in and start on a great team. It's as simple as that. Just to prove my point, no starting PG on the NBA champs for atleast the last 10 yrs (thats as far as I looked back) has put up more than 14 shots a game (Tony Parker last year, in which he was the 2nd option on the team)...while James is averaging 15 a game this year. You do not win in the NBA with your 3rd best player being a shoot first pg, plain and simple. The Rockets are looking to win the whole thing, not make a token one and out run into the playoffs.
That's ridiculous. When you have a Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Olajuwon etc etc... as w/ Yao and TMac... you do NOT have a shoot-first PG. If you have a team like Detroit, then yeah, shoot-firsts are fine. Pass-first does not preclude the PG from being able to shoot (and when we have a healthy offense on the floor Alston has shown that he has range), but the priority is the pass. For years this board expressed frustration w/ the lack of passes to Yao. Now he gets the ball, and the pendulum swings back...you can't have it both ways. Do you think that maybe some of Yao's break-out is because he's finally been getting the ball on a regular basis? I want to see you put a shoot-first PG on the floor that already has 2 superstars and see how long they last.
Who cares if James makes us better by a couple games. James isn't the difference in us challenging the Mavs or Spurs this season. But I will agree with your premise that as THIS season stands, James probably would have been better given the injuries to Yao and TMac. But again, since James wasn't going to turn us into a contender, the marginal difference is completely irrelevant. With a healthy Yao and TMac next season, IMO, Rafer is better than James esp if we sign a decent shooting guard this offseason. James is gone. Just let it die.
Sorry, I'm not an NBA veteran like you. I would rather have James shooting than Alston - that is the question we're addressing here. But since you asked -this year- I'd rather have James (47%) shooting than McGrady (41%). IIRC James shot better than him last year too. Yao shoots higher than all of them, so I guess he should just take all 80 shots a game if we're going to go that route. ...by what, one full year? Yeah, we gave up too much in Reece Gaines to let James walk, and Alston was a hot commodity. Right, he doesn't have the playoff starter success of a Rafer Alston. ....right, like the 2004 Raptors? You're just making stuff up. First off, you haven't been paying much attention. James plays both guard slots for the Raptors this year, and they have zero other perimeter scorers, unless you count Morris Peterson & Andre Barrett, hence his high shot numbers. That's what happens. BJ Armstrong shot 10 times a game in 1993 when the Bulls won the title. In 1994 with no MJ he shot 12 times a game. That's what happens. Players change their game based on circumstances. If you honestly think he'd get or take 15 shots a game in Houston, with a healthy yao and tracy - you're the one who hasn't ever watched basketball. I recall Mike James when he played here last year. he took 10 shots a game with a healthy cast around him. He took far fewer shots a game with Detroit the year before. He played good defense. Why would it be different story this year? I SO hate the whole "so-and-so can't win a championship" game - it is so stupid. As if there is a set formula which can't be deviated from -- but seriously, if you want to cite historical evidence, no championship point guard in recent memory has been as offensively inept and prone to miss wide open shots as Rafer Alston. Sure, none shot as much as James did this year except for Parker, Thomas, Magic Johnson(though Billups comes pretty close)- but neither would James if he were playing on those teams rather than the Raptors.
Cohen, describe a shoot-first PG - give me a set formula. And we can apply your theory and see if it holds water. let me guess: arbitrary declaration is a cornerstone of this theory. Oh, and name for me all the starting championship PG's who are as lousy outside shooters as Alston - especially those on Championship teams that relied on superstars. Off the top of my head, I'd say that Parker, Billups, Fisher, Harper, Smith, Armstrong, Paxson are all either marginally or significantly better outside shooters than Rafer will ever be. Maybe Ron Harper wasn't that great a shooter at the end of his career, which is understandable since he morphed from a scoring small forward with Cleveland & LAC into a defenseive specialst/spot shooter with Chicago & LAL, but that's it. And I wouldn't call him a "playmaker" in any event.
As a 2 guard, I like James. But the Rockets needed a stable point guard to make entry passes to Yao. For another year or two, we has Wesley playing decent at SG but NOBODY decent at PG. PG's are more important that SG esp if you already have an all-star SF and center your team. So you gotta give up something to get something. Love it or hate it, now the Rockets have a PG that will stick around and can make some assists. Now we need to fill in a few other holes like the shooting guard, backup SF and hopefully upgrade the PF position. I think upgrading the PG is the least of our problems at this point.
James=Ball Hog with an Attitude. A poor-man's SF3 who brought not a lot to the team. His couple of okay performances were overshadowed by his inability to notice ANY teammates when he was in trouble (which was often because he'd run into the lane with no idea where to go). I'd rather have Kenny Smith of today run the point again before James....
If you start with the roster from the beginning of the season, and they remained healthy...yes, I am "good" with the moves they have made. The other moves were plug in moves to stop the bleeding, which is hard to do considering that our top two players have been injured for large parts of the season. When you consider what we can spend, and what is reasonable to stop the bleeding, they have done a good job. Furthermore, dont question if I've watched them play. I've barely missed games since the Del Harris/ Bill Fitch days. Ya'll are just some disgruntled fans/ Crybabies/ Call it what you want...not to mention uneducated.
Shooter with an attitude, ball hog he is not. Gets over 5 APG and he does not have the rep of ball hog, I was listening to Al Trautwig the Knicks announcer describing Mike James, quote "You have got to guard Mike James because he can put up big numbers, he has had 3 30 point games this season and he never overlooks the pass". Rafer does handle the ball better but I can't argue with anyone that says the Rox got the short end of the stick on this trade. The numbers support MJ not RA, if you believe the Rox got the better of the deal, its not based on facts but on faith.
I used to say...As long as Rockets have Juwan Howard as their starting PF, they are never going to win a championship. I am going to modify it now. As long as Rockets have Juwan Howard OR Rafer Alston in their starting lineup, they are never going to win a championship. Rafer is a good backup. Nothing more. Juwan is good for 5-10 mins tops coming off the bench. Even a prime Hakeem/Drexler combo would have a hard time trying to get into western conference finals with these 2 in the starting lineup. Reality sucks.
When the trade first went down, I was 50-50 and leaning against it. I still don't believe a team with two dominant superstars needs a "traditional" pg. And I still believe that it's ironic that Van Gundy traded away a prototypical JVG guard in James to get Alston. Mike James was physical, quick, could shoot, score, and play defense. On a team tailor made for those abilities with t-mac and yao drawing double teams like hot cakes. Yet the Rockets got cute and traded him away. For all who say, well he wanted to be paid, and we might not have been able to keep him. You worry about that after the season. You don't trade away a player that fits in perfectly with what you are trying to do. Furthermore, how hard is it to tell guards: hit open shots, play D, and give the ball to your stars. That is all the Rockets need them to do when Yao-T Mac are healthy. Superstars set others up. Teams without superstars need a playmaker to get the ball to people in the right spot. The Rockets have those superstars in place. I think both Alston and James are useful players, but I cannot help but think after Alston's season in Toronto, that we overpaid.
Skip works on his 3pt shooting and defense in the offseason and we become a better team for it. Will James ever become a pass-first PG on a team with two superstars who demand the ball? Look, we could have seriously used James scoring with all of the injuries we have had, but i'm backing Skip. If he improves on those two areas we've got a solid PG on our hands. I respect James as a player, but i think Rafer's better for us when we have a healthy team. Nobody was complaining when Skip was playing out of his mind, making crazy dishes and shooting well--with a heavier load he has not been able to produce as much, but let's evaluate the guy with a healthy team and not become a bunch of Charley Rosens who just criticize after every loss.
Sam you got it right...James took ten shots a game last year for the Rockets....IN 25 MINUTES...as a BENCH player...that is where he is succesful, as a shooter coming off the bench. We wouldnt want James in the role that we have Alston right now, as the primary PG who's always on the court with our best players. He's a good player on a bad team...Antoine Walker put up damn near 20 and 10 last year in ATL and now he gets 12 and 5 for Mia...what gives? He's behind Udonis Haslem...a guy, who is a much better fit, ala Alston. Please come with more Sam, and wanting James taking the shots over TMac...maybe I'm just wierd but I feel much, much, much better with the ball in TMac's hands. It was also said that Alston has the ABILITY to start for a good team with his skill set, not that he has. Quote: . Not to mention Alston is younger and signed longterm when James was going to walk after this year.... ...by what, one full year? Yeah, we gave up too much in Reece Gaines to let James walk, and Alston was a hot commodity. With that logic if you bought a lotto ticket for $5 and won $5,000 you might as well just let that $5,000 ticket expire instead of cashing it in, I mean, you're only losing $5 right?
Um...Tony Parker...have you SEEN his jumper, by far a thing of beauty, to the tune of 31% career 3pt shooter...thats worse than Rafers for this season(which is incidentally his worse season since getting significant minutes) Ron Harper...not even going to go there...he topped Rafers 33.6% this year ONCE in his 16 yr career. Just because Fisher has had success against the Rockets doesn't mean he's that great of a shooter...hardly a real upgrade from his 37% career avg to Rafers 36%. Avery Johnson has already been discussed You guys are seriously over exaggerating Rafers lack of shooting ability, his career 3pt % is 2 points less than that of James...dont be so quick to judge this until we see how Rafer plays out the rest of his contract...he's having a career worst yr(shooting the rock) opposed to James having a career best.
u know what u lil pu** i usually dont argue wiht dumbasses like u but apparently u havent watched some of the games where tmac comes arounda pick and rafer takes the ball to the other side and u see tmac get frustrated...im a fair weather fan...ur prolly one of the few that are dumb asses that brought up the rumor bout tmac and his fiance and ur prolly one of the few that want KG for tmac...ive been to more rockets games then u could dream about goin to and have supported this team through all their problems dont call me a fair weather fan...
mike james was one of the reasons we were able to push the mavs to 7 games....and since rafer is ur boy u need to tell him to quit taking shots cuz the guy cannot shoot
I definitely would prefer James to take a wide-open 3 point shot rather than have Tracy force a double-teamed 20 footer, or Alston toss up a brick -- and so would every single coach in the NBA. For all of Alston's ability - his skill set seems to be lacking the two skills that playing with two superstars requires most: being able to capitalize when they're double teamed, and playing defense. Yes, I'd rather let it expire than buy a Ford Pinto that will cost you thousands in repairs, which is what Rafer Alston is. You said it yourself: Tony Parker is a legitimate scorer at point guard on a championship team; jumper or not - he's frigging Jordan next to Alston. Citing Parker does not help your cause here -- at all. Ron Harper: Yeah, thanks for telling me that Ron Harper wasn't a great spot up shooter, and purposefully omitting the part of my post where i said that. Of course harper was a good defender (rafer is not) and the last 3 bulls teams didn't really have a pure "pass first" PG on their roster whatsoever - so he doesn't exactly help your cause.
