I went to church today

Theological cleanup on Ailse 12. ...

BTW the Nicene council started the holy trinity ball rolling.

 

I'm right with you, Da Da. It's been a struggle for me, this past year.

I'm finding a lot of comfort in Hindu wisdom, from the Vedas and the Sutras, and in Taoism. Not so much Buddism, because I don't think the world is an illusion. I get the idea that perception, beliefs and attitudes are a big deal, though.

I love the church where I used to go, (Palmer Episcopal) and it's wonderful for my kids, with a great choir and music program and good messages and community, and respect for thoughtful discourse, but I just can't be a lay reader there anymore. I gave that up last year and stopped attending, at some point. I still like the story of Jesus, especially as told by Mark, the cleanest text. He's someone I can embrace and love, but I'm not going to assign a title or meaning to that, yet. I'd have to say I see him as a big hearted young man who had a problem with being illegitimate, that found an unusual and compelling way to re-frame that .

All in all, I embrace the idea that we ought to live a little better than animals, without denigrating our animal nature in any way. I think we should be flexible in figuring out what that means, in finding a higher self, or touching a universal self.

Peace be with you.

pax

 

*cough cough*

The Buddhist idea is that nothing is permanent and independent, so the sense of self and things as independent objects are an illusion. The illusion is in the mind. The universe exists exactly as it is. It's our limited, tainted perceptions of reality that is illusory. (Like the reflection of the moon in the water).

 

I miss him sooooo much, too bad I missed the mothership... I now go to a different church out in Tomball!

 

Thank you very much for the clarification. I still prefer this... call me selfish.

"I am not this."
"I am He."
Give up such distinctions.

Know that everything is the Self.
Rid yourself of all purpose.

And be happy.

-Ashtavakra Gita 15:15

 

It seems like the Catholic Church wanted to intellectualize religion in an attempt to obfuscate it. If the common man felt he was unable to comprehend the word of God , he would have to depend on the church hierarchy to understand it for him. Knowledge is power.

 

Sorry my "pretty sure" was tongue-in-cheek.

Just remember the atom wasn't discovered until a few hundred years ago but that doesn't mean that the atom didn't exist until then. If you have faith that the atom did exist before it's discovery, why would you doubt the existance of the trinity before someone said it did? Though the bible never uses the word trinity, it is full of references about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But even before the bible was written, I believe that they existed.

 

It gives a fictionalized context.

 

Grown men looking for a father figure. No that most of us don't need it.

 

DD, if you are serious about all this you might want to investigate some non-denominational ministries.

 

Holy Spirit gets mentioned in the OT? IIRC JC in the NT Gospels was also pretty mum about the HS.

 

No the HS was not specifically mentioned in the OT but I still believe He existed. Jesus said He would send the helper (the Holy Spirit) in John 16. The HS is mentioned in other NT scriptures but below is the scripture where Jesus explains what Christians call the Holy Spirit and His relationship as well as Jesus and his relationship to the Father. They are different but equal.

John 16:1
These things I have spoken to you so that you may be kept from stumbling. They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.
These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me.
But these things I have spoken to you, so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them. These things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.
But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, 'Where are You going?'
But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.
But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear {them} now.
But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose {it} to you.
All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose {it} to you.

I believe the HS was waiting to come, not waiting to be created. IMO, He existed before He came and His existance always was and always will be. And it is the HS that makes a born-again Christian born-again. We have a Helper because of what Jesus did.

 

I think you've just described yourself as a Unitarian Universalist.

 

thats a very interesting website. im going to have to look into that. there is a lot of information there.

 

Uh oh, someone hasn't read Judges. It mentions several times that Samson is filled with the Spirit of the Lord.
For Example:
14:6 And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done.

 

^ Good find SM.

 

To me, religion is all about Faith. Most cannot be proved as fact, you just have to believe. I think it is ok to question, but in the end, it comes down to what you believe.