[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

Bush was over 8ypc. However LenDale was nearly 7 despite playing more short yardage and goal line situations. Off of Texas, VY and Taylor were about 7 ypc, and Jammal Charles was at 7.5. Some great players yes, but got to give equal credit the big uglies there and passing games that kept teams from playing run only.

Also, YPC is not a good indicator of whether the player made the most of ever play. YPC is a better indicator of players who hit the home run play and of general Oline play. If you had stats on the median yards per carry or % of negative plays you could more speak to whether they made the most of of each play, but you really have to consider what the blocking was on the play to get a handle on it.

If you watch the Rose Bowl, 2 players with lots of carries finished runs yard, usually getting 2 yards after contact or more. They were White and Young. That is another marker of did they make the most of that play, and White and Young defintely did a lot more squeezing out the other end of the pile than RBush. Surely the major reason when SC needed to keep the ball from Texas they went to short passes and running LenDale (20 carries and all of the last drive) rather than deep passes or running Bush (13 carries and none during the last drive). Further, I watched SC a lot, this has been their formula during their 30+ win streak, so criticizing Carroll I think is pretty weak. The way they played in the Rose Bowl (including utilizing LenDale more than Bush in the running game when things got tough) is why they got to the Rose Bowl in 2006 and why they had a 2+ year win streak.

 

The line can be fixed through FA and later rounds of the draft. Coaching should also help. The Texans will address the line because it had been a problem for so long. Lepsis and Bently could both be possiblities. I understand your Marco Rivera comment, but the Chiefs picked up Roaf a couple of years back as an older player and he has played very well for them. I really think the coaching was the cause of alot of their problems, not to mention injuries. Pendry did a horrible job here- plain and simple. Another interesting note is I believe only two teams had OL drafted in the first round - CIncy and Indy.

There is very little chance of getting a first for Carr - value isn't there right now. You Indy argument is weak, they have to keep both Freeney - best D end in football and Wayne, probably the best number 2 as well. He fits what they do well. Edge is getting older and has had several serious knee injuries. I wouldn't pay him serious coin either. This is also a great RB draft. IF Edge were 24 they would probably let Wayne go instead. Maybe they want to keep Wayne because they realize that great receivers make QBs look good.

I figured that you hadn't played before. Some of your perspective make sense. I watch alot of Bball and I think I uderstand it fairly well, but not to the extent that my friends that have played do. Your right, O line and D line make huge differences in the game, and if I were GM I would put together the best lines on both sides of the ball that I could. Your USC had a great line comment is true, but so did VY at UT. However, at some point you have to have some guys that score TDs. I know VY can, but we just paid a QB a bunch of money so drafting another seems to be silly to me. I don't care if they take Bush. I think he will be awesome but I don't care if they take him or not. There are lots of possibilities to me, but taking a QB shouldn't be one of them. I only argue Bush's cause because some of the arguments made against are a little silly to me. You say all these guys tout VY as the best they have ever seen, but what did they say after the A&M game? VY played a wonderful game on a big stage, but it was against a terrible defense.

 

But it isn't just Edge. There wasn't much of a market for Alexander either. Marshall Faulk in his prime was traded. But Brady, Peyton, McNabb--those guys are not going to be traded anywhere near their prime, period. QBs are more valuable and have longer careers on average. You find a franchise guy, you lock him down as long as you can.

UT's line was excellent, but not as good as SC's. SC blew holes in the running game like no other team I saw, I don't think UT was even close in pure run blocking and no two running backs benifited more not just from their Oline but from their teams balance than White and Bush. UT's balance was much more due to one guy, the bigger the game (OSU, SC, OU, MIch), the better VY played and the higher % he was of Texas offense. And SC defense had some mediocre performance indicators (but still some great athletes, future NFLers mixed in, and lead the nation by a wide margin in TOs), but VY sliced up OSU with his legs and even more his arm, and OSU probably had more NFL talent than any other college team over the last few years.

VY isn't superman. But he does have a combination of physical gifts and leadership shown to make him an elite QB and one of the most dominant pro football players. I'd roll the dice on him being a dominant influence in the NFL over Bush, which is what IMO it boils down to (not the capability or contracts of Carr or Davis).

 

I agree, but it makes me wonder if only quarterbacks can be a true franchise guy.

 

The Saints traded their entire 1999 draft plus their first in 2000 for Ricky Williams. Then they traded Ricky for two firsts in 2002 to the Dolphins. The thing you've got to remember with running backs is that their peak trade value is in their 1st 4 seasons.

Edgerrin James and Shaun Alexander are in their late 20's. They've got mileage on them. Clinton Portis at a very young age was able to net the premier cover corner in the league in Champ Bailey. Great corners are worth their weight in gold. So that shows how valuable a running back in their early prime is worth. And you have to remember that the great bundle of draft picks of all time were for two running backs in Hershal Walker and Eric Dickerson. Not quarterbacks, but running backs.

There wasn't much of a trade market for Marshall Faulk because he had good but not great seasons in 1996, 1997 and 1998. He wasn't considered a premier back at that point because he was grossly misused by Indy.

Also, the greatest franchise running backs of all time weren't traded either. Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, and Walter Payton. Look at the top 5 qb's of all time in Elway, Montana, Unitas, Marino, and Favre. Two out of the five were traded. It's a stupid argument to begin with that you can't trade great qb's but you can trade great rb's. It happens both ways to be honest.

And the whole #1 draft pick qb's of produced more championships than #1 overall draft pick rb's is a stupid argument too. Who cares? What does that really show? Besides the best QB's of all time weren't 1st overall picks let along 1st round picks in some instances. Yes, QB's are drafted more regularly than RB's 1st overall. There is a bigger pool of QB's so the chances of QB's producing a championship will be greater than number one RB's. Hell, I think DT and Offensive Tackles have been drafted number 1 overall more than RB's. Just like in the NBA, big men are drafted number 1 overall more than the 1, 2 , and 3 positions. The list of big men drafted number one overall is littered with a lot of bad players. Center is an important position in the NBA and QB is an important position in the NFL. I think it just shows that drafting those positions is so unpredictable that teams will always reach because their is a lack of talent at those positions in their respective sports. It doesn't mean those positions are infinitely more important than others. It just that a lot of teams have crappy QB's and centers.

It also sounds like USC is one of the greatest offensive line of all time. How many 1st round picks do they have on the offensive line? None that I know of. Heck how many will actually be drafted by an NFL team? 3, maybe 4. Now Clinton Portis and Willis McGahee ran behind truly terrific lines, with tremendous offensive talent to boot. When you got Bryant McKinnie who was drafted in the top 7 along with a bunch of NFL drafted O-lineman creating gaping holes, of course it's a knock on the abilities of Portis and McGahee. How can they produce at elite status in the pro's running behind such great O-Lines in college? It's just too darn hard project how good they'll be. Just like Eddie George really didn't have to do much work with Ohio State's stud offensive lineman, anchored by the 1997 1st overall pick in Orlando Pace. Ricky Williams had Leonard Davis (a top 5 pick) and a bunch of NFL drafted O-lineman to run behind. Heck, forget college football, let's talk about Emmit Smith running behind an O-line in the NFL that was filled with Probowlers at every position (Larry Allen, Mark Stepnoski, Erik Williams, Nate Newton, and that other guy I'm forgeting). Let's not forget one of the best blocking full backs of all time in Moose Johnson and one of the best blocking WR's in the game in Michael Irvin. Let's knock Emmitt Smith from his top 5 running back of all time status, because how can you not run for more yards than anyone in NFL history behind an O-line like that. Stupid argument.

So yes, let's stick some of the greatest running backs of all time and see how many yards they rack up behind USC supposedly best o-line in college football for the last two years. Yeah, a lot of running backs are going to rack up over 3000 yards rushing and 40 TD's like Reggie Bush and LenDale White. Come on give me a break. This one sided debate is getting ridiculous. Both Vince Young and Reggie Bush are great players. Let's not come up with half baked arguments that one is a superior choice than the other. I think we'll do fine going either direction.

 

I'm just going to repost my whole Superbowl post about whether a great passing game or a great running game is more helpful to getting to Superbowls. Personally, I think you need a good QB and RB with a good defense to have the most success in the NFL.

Just to flesh out this debate even more. How many teams won or lost the Super Bowl primarily relying on either the running game or passing game.

2005 Steelers - 5th in the league in Rushing. 24 th in the the league in passing. Running team.

Seahawks - Probowl QB and RB. Balanced.

2004 Patriots - Probowl QB and RB. Balanced. 7th in Rushing, 11th in passing. (If you want to see why they dropped off this year, look no further than their 24th ranked Rushing attack)

Eagles - Pass heavy. 7th in Passing, 24th in Rushing.

2003 Patriots - Pass heavy (controlled passing game; used it like the run game). 9th in Passing, 27th in Rushing.

Carolina Panthers - Running team. Stephen Davis and Deshaun Foster powered that team with a good D.

2002 Bucs - Relied on a strong running game with Dunn and Alstott. Bad offensive team for the most part.

Raiders - Passing. 1st in Passing and 18th in Rushing.

2001 Patriots - Balanced. Offense was average. Didn't commit many turnovers. Brady didn't hurt them, and Antwoine Smith provide them with tough yards.

Rams - Balanced. Offensive Juggernaut with MVP caliber players at the QB and RB positions. Probably should have relied more on Faulk though in the Super Bowl.

2000 Ravens - Great running game with Lewis. Great D. Absolutely terrible passing game.

Giants - Running team. Collins was pretty good that year, Barber was their go to guy with 1700 yards of total offense.

1999 Rams - Balanced. Faulk and Warner. Both MVP type seasons.

Titans - Runing team. A big dose of Eddie George, a splash of McNair.

1998 Broncos. Running team. Terrel Davis with 2000 yards rushing. Elway still performing at a high level.

Falcons. Running team. Jamal Anderson with 400 plus carries. Chris Chandler at QB. Enough said.

1997 Broncos. Running team. A whole lot of Terrel Davis and a good dose of Elway.

Packers. Balanced. Favre. MVP. Dorsey Levens was a Pro Bowler though with over 1400 yards rushing.

1996 Packers. Passing team. Favre. MVP. Packers did rush for over 1800 yards as a team. But Favre put the ball in the air over 540 times.

Patriots Patriots. Balanced. Probowl QB and RB in Bledsoe and Curtis Martin.

1995 Cowboys. Running team. Emmit Smith...All time leading rusher. Troy Aikman...23000 yards passing (is that even in the top 15?) Let's not kid ourselves about what the Cowboys where about. Troy Aikman has never passed for over 3600 yards or thrown more than 23 TD's in a single season.

Steelers. Running team. Bam Morris and Bam Morris. And a whole lot of praying that Neil O'Donnel doesn't cost them a game.

1994 Niners. Balanced with a slight bent towards passing. Steve Young. MVP. Ricky Watters..perennial probowler.

Chargers. Running team. Natrone Means and praying that Stan Humphries doesn't cost them a game.

1993 Cowboys. Running team. See above.

Bills. Balanced. Jim Kelly. Thurman Thomas (who regularly produced 2000 yards of total offense)

1992. Cowboys. Running team.

Bills. Balanced.

1991. Redskins. Balanced. Mark Rypien actually made the probowl that season. Rushed for close to 2000 yards as a team.

Bills. Balanced.

1990. Giants. Running team. Relied on Ottis Anderson and some timely passing for Jeff Hostetler.

Bills. Balanced.

1989. Niners. Balanced with a bent towards passing. Montana. 3500 yards passing. Roger Craig 1000 yards rushing. Team rushed for 1700 yards. Rushing attempts and Passing attempts almost equal.

Broncos. Balanced. A surprise I know. Elway finished with 18 td passes and 18 ints with 3000 yards passing and a qb rating of 73. Didn't make the probowl. Bobby Humphreys on the other hand did make the probowl if my memory serves me and finished with over 1100 yards rushing.

1988. Niners. Balanced. Craig a monster year of over 1400 yards rushing.

Bengals. Balanced with a slight bent towards Running. Probowlers at QB and Running. Esiason with a great season of over 3500 yards passing and 28 td's. Ickey Woods and James Brooks both almost run for 1000 yards.

1987 Redskins. Tough to say. Strike year. Ran and pass the ball almost 50/50. Doug Williams had a 300 yard passing game in the Super Bowl and Timmy Smith rushed for a super bowl record of over 200 yards as a rookie.

Broncos. Passing. Elway and that was it.

1986. Giants. Running team. Joe Morris with a massive 1500 yard rushing season and a Probowl.

Broncos. Elway and that's it.

1985. Bears. Walter Payton with a massive 1500 yard rushing season. Pray that Jim McMahon doesn't have his head band too tight.

Patriots. I can't even remember anything about them. Was Tony Eason their QB? I don't know.

So that a look at the last 21 Super Bowl contestants.
By my count, 17 of the last 42 Super Bowl Contestants were heavily reliant on their running game. 6 of the last 42 Super Bowl Contestants were heavily reliant on their passing game. 19 of the last 42 Super Bowl teams were pretty balanced.

A good running game and a good defense can take you a long ways. Rarely has a QB carried an offense without a good running back to a super bowl. A great running back has carried many a teams with a mediocre QB to a Super Bowl.

QB is most important position in the game. But football, probably moreso than any sport, requires a team effort. Offense, Defense, and Special Teams need to come together.

 

Thanks, I have been trying to express this in about 20 posts but I only muddy the water.

And thanks for spelling Dominick correctly.

And may the Texans trade for 5 high picks and get lucky on every one of them.

 

I think the Texans should trade down and select Michael Huff. We need another IHOP in Houston.


Draft Diary: The Combine, the Wonderlic and IHOP

Posted: February 22, 2006

Michael Huff
For Sporting News

Texas' Michael Huff is the top safety prospect in the 2006 NFL draft. He writes a weekly draft diary for SportingNews.com.

After several weeks of working out in Arizona in preparation for the draft, my strength and conditioning regimen doesn't seem to be changing much. I've been working really hard, though. The trainers here at Athletes' Performance in Phoenix have been focusing on my strength and fast-twitch muscles.

This week I did get the chance to work on some hydraulic air weights. They were like nothing I had ever seen, like something out of this world. They basically look like a normal bench press, but without the plates on each side. I do know they give the exact same burn as the normal bench.


The whole process of training and getting ready for the Combine isn't anything new to me since I'm used to working this hard. We certainly didn't take it easy at the University of Texas. So the transition to draft preparation hasn't been that drastic.

I did get the chance recently to take the Wonderlic test, and man, was that interesting. It's a 12-minute exam consisting of 50 questions that are supposed to test your problem-solving skills and aptitude for learning. I don't know what a lot of those questions had to do with my job playing safety on Sundays, but if NFL teams want to know what kind of animal I want to be, a cat or a dog, then I guess I'm all for taking the test.

Since the draft is quickly approaching, I've been thinking about what I'll buy with my first professional paycheck. A lot of people are probably expecting me to say that I'd buy a big house, and that's partly true. But it's not what you think. The first house I buy will be the one with the blue roof on it that says "IHOP." It has been a dream of mine to own my own International House of Pancakes, and someday I will. Just last week I ate there five or six times, and about every time I got the same thing, pancakes and shrimp. It's a cool feeling to know that someday I'll get to eat at my IHOP whenever I want.


http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=64989

 

I'm not sure if this has been posted and to be honest I don't feel like looking through 84 pages so disregard if it has.

Here are some of Vince Highlights

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Career-Top-11

 

Kind of reminds me of Vick, with size and a better arm.

But I guess I'd rather have a fast midget RB that won't be able to carry a team but will sure get some nice SC Top Ten plays once in a while.

 

Actually, Vick might have the strongest arm in the NFL. His accuracy however........

 

By better I meant the total package.

 

There are suckers born every minute.

Champ Bailey was a premier corner when he was traded, though he has probably become THE premier corner now. I also can't tell you the last time a corner, no matter how good, went in the top 2 spots. I am pretty sure the answer is never. Also consider Portis was coming off 3000 yards his 1st two seasons--very rare company (a person would be a fool to take a bet that Bush will beat this), he was equally promising and distinguished (Portis was traded the year after he made the Pro Bowl, Bailey wasn’t 1st team all-pro “premier” until being with the Broncos) in his position as Bailey was and Portis is a couple years younger (though the Broncos also got a 2nd rounder form Wash).

Faulk averaged over 1000 yards rushing and 500 yards receiving for Indy. (Someone would also be a fool to bet than Bush will average 500 yards receiving and 1000 yards rushing in his 1st 5 years, I think Faulk is probably the only one to do it.) In fact he had over 1300 rushing and 900 yards receiving with Indy the year before he was traded. How exactly was he not used properly by Indy and how would be have been thought of a less than premier back?

Da Man, usually you are a lot closer to spot on than this.

It is overwhemling. Team that have spent a #1 on a QB (to build a franchise around) have won like 12 superbowls, RBs at #1 to build their franchise around, ZERO. You really want to say 12-0 is a coincidence. How about Hall of Fame QBs to RBs. Another landslide (I have counted it already in this thread a number of times but don't care to dig it up).

The math is overwhelming in favor of franchise and Hall of Fame QBS being more important to team success than the same for RBs. If you want repeat superbowl wins or appearances, with very few exceptions you better have a Hall of Fame QB or near one. Not saying you have to have one to win a superbowl, but it sure gives you a big edge. But go ahead and think a single RB is equal in important to a single QB if you want. Go ahead and think finding the next Elway, Montana and Staubach is no more important than finding the next Walter, OJ and Barry Sanders, but don’t be calling other arguments stupid if you choose to think this. History and results and experts (they guys who decided to build their franchises with Elway and Aikman instead of ED and Sanders) all point otherwise.

Justice is a lock for the 1st. Byrd is a lock for late 1st to early 2nd. Latui is a lock for the 1st day, possibly as high as late 1st or early 2nd. Matui and the fullback Kirtman probably will be drafted 2nd day, but might not, but both will undoubtedly get paid NFL tryouts. The other 2 OL members off of SC are back in school so we don't know yet. Overall it is not a stretch to say 9-10 starters off their offense will be drafted when their time comes up, including 4-5 definite 1st rounders (add Jarrett for sure, likely top 5 or top 10). Talent in an offense hasn't been seen in a college offense since perhaps the early 90s late 80 Miami, certainly not McGahee or Portis's teams. (hell, when McGahee went out of the 01 NC game Miami stopped running despite having a future drafted player behind him, McGahee was a great pure tailback who could squeeze positive yards out of bad plays and little blocking against a fine defense like Ohio States. Miami almost surely doesn’t lose if he doesn’t take a horrific injury)

SC had a heck of a lot more skill talent and Oline talent than VY had. And VY had some serious college talent around him, no question. But SC was another animal entirely in terms of nearly NFL quality players in the line and all skill positions. Team have never had the freedom to key on Bush like they did on VY (one of the fav arguments around here is that Texas keyed their whole defense on Bush, as if they didn’t need to equally account for Jarrett, Bryd or LenDale), and neither SC nor OSU nor anyone else could stop VY when he was on his game.

Further, did you watch SC in the Rose Bowl? Have you not seen the holes they put in the teeth of the Texas defense that no-one else came close to doing? I watched SC a lot and they gutted everyone else too. There is a reason LenDale got almost 7 yards per carry despite playing in the bulk of the short yardage and goal line situations. Part is because LenDale is outstanding, but even more because their oline was so phenomenal.

SC’s line may not be the best ever, but it is at least the best since the late 90s NU ones. And SC’s overall offensive talent is probably better than anyone since at least the early 90s Miami. Yet VY matched them score to score, and he himself accounted for 80% of their yards. You can try the card that well “SC’s defense wasn’t that good”, but VY also accounted for a similar % of their yards and a similar passing % against OSU, and OSU is the closest defensive equivalent to SC’s offense (8 or so guys will be drafted off the Buckeyes this year alone, including 4-5 1st day picks).

One sided debate my ass, the off the wall or flat hater stuff against VY has been crazy around hear.

Finally something I can agree with. I have no problem with this. But it is tiring to hear all these questions about VY not translating his game to the pros and all this Reggie Bush is the best prospect ever, no holes or concerns to his game whatsoever, crap. Be as fair and as balanced about the strengths, weakness, concerns and questionmarks of both players or not. Also the argument that too many VY supporters are hating on Bush is old and tired, and not close to true relative to the other way around. I don’t know anyone spewing the hate and equivalent crap towards Bush, recognizing concerns or questionmarks does not mean hate. Hate and fear is the predominant mentality of a lot of the people who are so threatened that the Texans even are consider drafting VY.

My view is Reggie Bush is among the best college football players I have ever seen in the open field. (Though the track record of great college open field thrivers translating their game has not been great in the NFL--Vick (though jury is still out), Howard, Warrick, Metcalf, Ismail, unless they rounded themselves out in lots of other ways a la Sanders, Tim Brown). Speed, explosiveness and elusiveness in the open field has never been enough to make one a great NFL player in out itself, because 90% of the time plays won’t get the space where such skills matter. Dante Hall is a great in the open field as maybe anyone, but he isn’t worth a 1st round pick let alone a pick above a potential franchise QB. Obviously Bush has a ton more going for him than Hall, but his most fundamental strength (elusiveness and explosiveness in space) becomes a nice speciality to have in the NFL, but not a cornerstone.

Reggie Bush also has tremendous burst, vision (in the open field, not sure on reading blocks and in tight space) and great balance. He could round out into a blend of Curtis Martin and Marshall Faulk, possibly—and if so that is a great player (hate to compare him to Barry or Sayers, just not fair to do as it is not fair to expect Young to be Elway). But Curtis reads blocks the best in the NFL and Faulk is a tremendously smart player with a great work ethic (also tremendous in reading blocks and understanding all nuances to the running and passing game). Again possible for Bush—not discounting his potential, but major leaps on both accounts to say he will.

So Bush could be a great NFL RB, no doubt. But that does not discount that we don’t have a good handle whether he will be durable as a workhorse (which all elite 1st round RBs are expected to be), whether he can thrive in a game where open field space is really hard to find (NFL), whether he can be a relentless player between the tackles play after play, whether he finds ways to generate yards after contact (he did not move piles or break tackles near as effectively as LenDale or one Vince Young, or even some smaller guys with super strong legs like Emmitt or Barry), whether he can pick up a 220LB SS or even bigger LB aiming to kill his QB. These are legitimate concerns, Bush may have positive answers for them at the next level or he may not. He also doesn’t have your prototype RB frame, not very heavy or thick in his legs for his height (again I don’t think he carries near the punch of say Emmitt Smith through contact, even though their weight is not that disparete). Not a killer issue, Curtis Martin has done well with a somewhat similar frame, but Bush’s frame in carrying only a little over 200 is certainly not a bonus.

And someone who says Bush has fewer questions or is more of a “sure thing” pro tailback than say Campbell, Dickerson, Walker, Simpson, Dorsett, Barry Sanders, or Faulk (Bush as the “greatest of all time” crap, part Payton part Sayers)--well then I don’t think they have much of a sense of history or knowledge of the pro game, or college game. They have been caught up with the same Bush media machine that lead to a landslide Heisman campaign when by all respects if you judged the individuals over their whole season it should have been very close (consider Bo Jackson—probably the finest football athlete ever, barely won over much lesser comp than VY and ML, the voting and the role of national media make the Heisman voting a much different thing now).

Now on VY. He has questions too. He hasn’t played into a pro style offense (note: neither did McNair or McNabb—and they were good players by year 2). Will he be able to read NFL defenses. Does he have a great arm, or merely a good one. Despite incredible performances in his biggest games (he was the dominant player by far in the last 4 big games her played—SC, OU, OSU and Mich), he has played down to his competition at times, and been less consistent (particularly throwing) versus inferior opponents.

But some other questions about him are flat myths. Questions about him being accurate and a good decision maker, myths. He had the best QB rating going into Rose Bowl and completed 75% of his passes in it. That same game he made fewer errant throws and bad decisions than ML, who everyone is crediting for being such a good decision maker and being so accurate. In fact he had nearly a 70% completion rate versus opponents with winning records last year. Saying he is a “running QB” and thus won’t be successful on the next level, myth. He passed for 3x the yards that he ran for last year. His accuracy, touch and decision making throwing was the key reason for Texas winning its biggest games and the NC this year.

What it all boils down to me IMO is not only VY is just a little more special and unique combination of athleticism and intangibles (leadership, composure), and he plays a more important position than Reggie Bush. While it is unfair to compare any player to Elway because 99% would fail that comparison (like comparing a player to Jordan), VY has an awefully special blind of skills. Certainly not unfair to compare his attributes to those of other passer-runners like McNabb, McNair, Steve Young, Culpepper and Cunningham (more valid than Vick who is about 6 foot and has no throwing touch). And we have a very good indication VY’s composure under pressure and leadership skills and polar opposites to say Culpepper, IMO the only underachiever of the bunch.

After watching both players a ton the last 2 years, after watching the Rose Bowl (VY actually finished his runs better than Bush did), watching the NFL playoffs where there are so few QBs who can knock a defense off their rythum, in the end there is no way I’d take Bush over VY (unless I had Brady, Manning, McNabb, Palmer or Reoth (maybe) already--in that case I’d trade down). This is not a knock on Bush to say. Phenom college player (though not the best of last year obvious to all post Jan 4), great talent, surely will be a contributing pro if he can stay healthy, and might be a great pro RB if a fair number of his questions and concerns get answered. But it is no more shame for him to be drafted after VY than it was for Dickerson to go after Elway or Sanders to go after Aikman. It might not happen, after all McNabb went after Couch and McNair after Ki-Jana Carter, but I don’t see why VY should be any less regarded as McNabb and McNair (VY probably is even more proven versus higher comp actually, and is definitely taller and faster than either), and the teams with McNabb and McNair have been happy. They would even be happy with their choice of McNabb or McNair had a blend of Faulk and Martin been available as well (a pretty fair way upper end of Bush’s expectation).

 

Something that is being overlooked is: Franchise #1 pick Qbs come along basically every year. A RB worthy of the number one pick is rare. Bush is not just some highlight reel. He is special. He is such a rare talent that he is the clear cut number one pick over a potential Franchise QB (Leinart) and another interesting prospect at QB (Radio). We also already have a #1 pick Franchise QB in Carr. The jury is still out on him. To all those who say Vince will change the Qb position. Please explain to me how. Mcnabb was a great runner and a much better passer than Young. In my opinion Young will never be close to Mcnabb. Vick was an amazing runner and decent QB. But he has now run into trouble now that they have complicated the offense. I just don't see Young being able to get under center and make good quick decisions. All the big plays he made in the rose bowl were , look for number one WR then take off. He will be an exciting player no doubt. I just don't think I would ever want his hands on the ball needing to make a play through the air.

 

Bush measured in at 5'10 7/8'' and 201 lb. Wasn't there a bet on about his size?

 

Well where was superman at in 04 against Oklahoma?

 

You are right. The Broncos wish they could have built their team with Dickerson instead of Elway, and the Cowboys wish they built their team around Sanders instead of Aikman. Or go on, are you going to say Bush is more of a sure thing and better prospect than Hall of Famer's Sanders and Dickerson.

Funny I guess that is what you have to resort to when the guy wipes his ass with your remains year after year.

If you are so interested in a #1 pick Franchise QB why not just sign Tim Couch for 1/10th the cost of Carr and save the money.

It is because VY's was a greater college player, has a more unique and special athletic skill set, and has already demonstrated better leadership and composure in pressure situaitons. Carr might become an excellent pro QB, but signs are mixed 4 years in. VY might NOT be better than him, and might not be a good pro QB. But I wouldn't count on either, and I'd certainly take my chances with him over Carr.

Did you watch the Rose Bowl. VY looked at 2nd, 3rd and 4th options. HE PASSED 40 TIMES, he completed 30 (75%, since I gather math is probably hard for you I provided it) among 7 different receivers. He rush 19 times. All year, and in the biggest games like the Rose Bowl, he was a pass 1st, rush 2nd QB. He shows touch and decision making Vick hasn't shown despite 4+ years of pro grooming.

The worst nightmare to an NFL defense is a guy who kills you with his legs, feet, arm and mind within in a single package.

McNabb passed for 2100 yards his senior season (VY 3000), his completion rate was 62% (versus 65 for "radio") and he threw for 22 TDs (versus 26). McNabb also played in more of an option running system than VY. What was your argument again?

 

Not superman, a mortal football player. Arguably the most dominant and gifted college football player to lace them up for a big game, but mortal. Being the key player in virtually all of 20+ some victories and a NC is pretty good. Including that stretch was a dominant win over Oklahoma wasn't there. And a win over 1.5time defending champion, and undefeated, Trojans.

 

I'll save IC200 the trouble, VY had much better players around him...

 

How is it possible to write so much about one player? You have to be going in circles about now.

When the draft is over you should compile all of your writings into a book.

You can either title it "Why the Texans will win the Superbowl for the next 10 years"

or

"The Texans are a bunch of stupidheads"