I just want to bring this up again because it is powerful statistics. Everyone ought to go to the link that durvasa gave us and check out the stark devastation of the Yao-Howard combination. Go down to Yao's stats measured with each player. The only player on the team that Yao has a net negative with is................yep, Howard. Now compare Howard's numbers to Chuck Hayes in combination with Yao. Yeah, I know Hayes sample is small. So, don't compare. Just look at the sheer negativity of Howard on this team. He's got the worst +/- numbers of anyone on this team by far. It's not even close. Yeah, Stro's numbers are negative for the most part too. But they're still better than Howard's. It's a matter of which player is going to hurt you the least, not which is going to help you. These numbers just prove to me that Hayes should be playing alongside Yao and let Juwon and Strom duke it out backing up those 2. They would have a better chance to improve their +/- against other teams' bench players. And they also show that we've got to upgrade our 4 spot. Juwon's obviously not the answer. And, especially after Stro getting bumped to inactive again tonight, and looking at his numbers, it sure doesn't look like he's the answer. I think we'd be better off at this point to get a garbage man, like Reggie Evans beside Yao, preferrably along with a prime time swing man to play the 2, that will easily be our 3rd scoring option.
Overanalyzing those stats won't tell you much. If you took T-Mac's first half points and multiplied them by 2, you wouldn't get his ppg because he scores more later in the game. What's to say Swift won't do the same thing, and be better in the 4th? What's to say he'll not be as productive with more minutes? Analyzing those stats like that will not get you a players' efficiency, etc. The only way to compare and contrast them (Howard vs. Swift) is to let Swift play the big minutes, and that decision is up to JVG. He's been reluctant to do so, but with what he's seen so far, with that inconsistency, would he really want 32 minutes of that? Just a thought. P.S. I believe in Swift's potential, I would love for JVG to give him big minutes one game against a grossly less athletic PF to boost his confidence...and production.
Wow those are some really interesting stats. You also make some very valid points about our PF's, i think the Stro, Howard, and Hayes wont cut it for a team trying to win a championship in the near future. right now our weak links in the starting lineup are howard and wesley, wesley i would have no problem coming off the bench i really like the toughness and grit he plays with and his ability to hit shots, but i much rather see that production off the bench. Howard on the other hand, IMO, provides nothing that he does consistently well for this team. Yao needs a tough, hard nosed rebounder next to him who plays with excitement and hit the open jumper, and i although i realize those are almost impossible to find nowadays, we should atleast seek out a great rebounding power forward like reggie Evans as you mentioned. If i am not mistaken, Swift was chased pretty hard by seattle in the offseason. this could mean open up a window of opportunity of a trade with that organization. Maybe a combination of Swift and an expiring contract plus a second rounder for Vladimir radmanovic and reggie evans. I dont know if this is even possible financially or if seattle would be open to this trade possibility, but we definitely need a power farward who can contribute more than howard and swift.
Don't you understand? That's DaDakota's plan for getting rid of rid of JVD. DaDakota: As long as we are extrapolating here, then wouldn't Chuck Hayes be the logical starter? However, I agree that the Rockets need to play Swift a lot more. Also, while I think JVG is an able coach, he must remember that older players start as younger players. He's got to stop fussing and start teaching so he will end up with his veterans that know his system.
Juwon reminds me of Jimmy Jackson from last year. Anybody remember him? He's not even getting off the bench for Phoenix anymore. He was Van Gundy's pet while he was here, the consumate worker, dedicated, blah, blah, blah. But our offensive was stagnant with lack of ball movement and quickness and we looked horrid, until they pulled the trigger on the DWesley deal. Hey, I was a JJ fan, and I didn't think we got enough back for him and Boki. Looking back on it, I still think we could have got more. But what happened was, it was addition by subtraction. Taking JJ out of the lineup and putting in a player with more quickness was a huge difference. All of a sudden, the ball starts flying around the court and we start throwing up 100+ points on a semi-regular basis. What is the modus operandi of most of the league's PFs these days? There are 2 distinct classes. You have a few of the prototypical, post-up, in the paint PFs like Duncan. They are getting fewer and fewer. But what is happening more and more is there are many more 3 point shooting, PFs who spot up at the arc, or near the arc, and drain that jump shot. They keep shooting it, until the defense is forced out on them, then they go to the hoop for the oop dunk, or dribble drive lay in. You have to have an athlete at the 4 spot to be competitive. You have to have a guy that can defend all the way out to the arc but is mobile enough to still get back down in the paint and rebound, and who is strong enough to be an effective post up defender. Now take the above and consider all the centers that can and do step out to the top of the key and are throwing up that jumper. On the perimeter, take Juwon and multiply him x 2 because there is no way that Yao can defend the perimeter against those guys. With Juwon in the game, teams just go to whichever big guy that can get off the shot. By the way, Juwon's post defense is virtually non-existent these days too. He has to have help on any decent post up big man. Otherwise, they will turn and shoot right over him, because his Nike's are glued to the floor. He can't get up to contend the shot. He's too slow. He can't handle the dribble drive off the post up. He's too slow. He's too slow. He's too slow. Even his post up offense is deteriorating this year. The only weapon he has in his aresenal is the 17 footer, and you can bet that teams would rather have him lining that shot up than TMac or Yao going off on them. That's why his stats are as good as they are, because he is essentially our 3rd option and he is one-dimensional. When his stats are up, you can bet that we are terribly inefficient, with more turnovers and a poorer shooting percentage. And when that shot is off, and he is taking a bunch of them, you can bet we are down by 20+ because the opposition is effectively taking Yao and TMac out of the game, forcing the shots to him, and he is clanking, and they are running to the other end for the layup. It's addition by subtraction just like with Jimmy Jackson. Get him out of the lineup and put in Hayes. Yeah, Hayes may miss a few assignments, yeah, other teams are gonna try to post him up and take advantage of him because of his size. Yeah, Hayes may not be the ultimate answer there. But, the opposing team's efficiency will go down with Juwon out of the game and Hayes in the game. Offensively, you gotta put him under the bucket. By the way, that's exactly what we need with McGrady in the game. McGrady needs to be firing up shots. We need somebody under fighting for the offensive boards. That's why Baxter looked so good here. He got under the bucket and rebounded. Hayes is under the basket for practically every shot and fighting for the board. That's why he gets so many. Howard is a non-factor on the glass. When Howard is in the game, teams focus on blocking out Yao, and that's it. When Hayes is in the game, they've got a dilemma. They've got to account for Hayes' activity. If they do, Yao has more opportunitites. If they don't and still go for the box out on Yao, Hayes gets more opportunities. Just like JJ, Juwon is a super nice guy and a true, hard-working professional. Just like JJ, we'd be better off if he wasn't on the floor. You've got to go a long ways to find somebody that would hurt our team as much as he does. The only one that I can think of on the roster right now would be Bowen because his offense is so bad. Then again, Bowen actually helps us from time to time with certain matchups defensively with his speed and hustle. I can't think of any matchups that Juwon helps us with. I can't even think of any matchups that Juwon does not hurt us with. He should be playing 5-15 minutes a game against scrubs when we know he can post up on his defender and get some easy shots and buckets. That's it. We've probably tried to trade him, but, I'll bet we can't move him because he has a negative trade value. He needs to be the 11th or 12th man and just let Hayes or Swift develop or make a move and bring in another 4. If we can't get another 4, then give Hayes and Swift the minutes. Even with Hayes size problems and Swift's bone-headedness, we're better off working with them than Howard. He's too slow. He's too slow. He's too slow.
Evans makes $1.1 million. Vlad makes $3.166 million. Stro makes $5 mill. DA makes $1.67 mill. Moochie makes $4.2 mill. DWes makes $5.07 mill. Seattle doesn't have any true SG besides Ray Allen, forcing Flip to spell Jesus. And Reggie Evans is in the doghouse. *TRADE IDEA* Trade them DA for Reggie Evans plus cash considerations. Helps out both teams.
Git 'er done. Then you've got Stro, Moochie, and Wesley's deal to line up a prime time wing player. Go after Pietrus, Miles, Maggette, etc. etc. etc. Offer Portland big time cap relief by taking back Theo with Miles or taking Patterson with Miles, whatever, to get a prime time swing player in here.
This point might have been raised since I didn't read the whole thread. How does Ho's mid range jumper plays into the equation in term of compatibility with Yao's low post offense?
However, you rarely see Yao pass it to J-ho for the shot, usually it is a guard or Tmac.... J-Ho is a professional player, I would just like to see Stro get his shot at starting, much more athletic. DD
start stro, trade jho. i'm beginning to like the idea of jho for q-rich trade. it'd have to be a package deal involving juwan+DA for q-rich and lee, but only if lee is included and wesley re-signs in the summer (can't trust q-rich to stay healthy). rafer sura spanoulis q-rich wesley head tracy bogans rybo splitter lee hayes yao swift deke
my thinking is q-rich would be easier to offload for a pick or picks than jho in a couple of years if there is a need to.
Just let the kid play 30-35 minutes a game for about 2 weeks and then you'll see if he fits in well...he'll need to be carefull with his fouls though, and make sure to make a difference on defense...I'm getting sick of all these ''Trade Swift'' threads, since he doesn't get enough playing time and is visibly not motivated enough either
Stromile's 17 footer looked good tonight. My theory is, if that jump shot is that important to floor spacing, then we need to get a Troy Murphy/Donyell Marshall/Okur type that will carry it out to the 3 point line. That would be even better spacing than the top of the key. Apparently Harrington has extended his range out to 3 point land this year as well.
Is it more important to win games or get Stro up to speed? If we are gonna make this playoff comeback, we can't afford to drop any games because Stro had another 5 foul, 4 turnover, 5 rebound game. I'm not a huge fan of Howard but the dude just doesn't make many mistakes. He's not fancy like Stro but he isn't a liability like Stro.
Harrington would be great. He's not a typical PF but he brings intensity, effort and and a great skillset. The price to get him would be very high and I'm sure someone else will offer the Hawks more. Getting him would put us in serious position for a playoff run. At least now, we have three starting positions locked up. I'm just about sold on Rafer. We still need a new starting PF & SG.
Probably should be mentioned here somewhere, but you could add a stat of FOULS per minute and find out rather quickly that JVG can't afford to give the starting role to a guy that doesn't show up for practice on time, collects fouls like crazy, fails every other defensive assignment down the court and rarely uses his size and skills to work the boards. I like Stro's athleticism. But there is no doubt that he is a MAJOR project that is just underway. The good news is that half this problem is fixed if you can get this kid serious about his job. I trust JVG on this one. He's turned around worse. It just doesn't happen overnight. With J-Ho, at least he puts out the effort and shows up for practice.
At this point, I would start Hayes over JHO. He was so flat and lifeless at the start of today's game. Took an awful 15 footer early in the game at the beginning of the shot clock.
