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Yao is the only center in the NBA averaging over 20 points per game

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DeAleck, Feb 8, 2006.

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  1. RocketForever

    RocketForever Member

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    Unlike you who always run your mouth without using your brain, I have done a search for your posts before I pointed that out. You have been quiet since Jan 31 and during the period when we won 4 in a row and Yao was playing well. Then you started running your mouth again after we lost the game last night and Yao did not play well. Coincidence? I think not.
     
  2. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    You're talking to a guy whose first 15 posts were devoted soley to Yao.
     
  3. DeAleck

    DeAleck Member

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    I didn't start a thread just to have it turned into a shouting match (which involves in Clutch), did I...

    Anyway. I love Yao. I am a huge fan of his. He clearly deserves to be the starting center in the West.

    HOWEVER, to be very fair and honest, Yao has been a modest disappointment for me. He was chosen #1 in the 2001 draft. When you are chosen #1, you are supposed to be a franchise player that turns a horrible team around into a contender. Hakeem did it, Ewing did it, Shaq did it, Duncan did it. Yao hasn't yet.

    In a way, Yao did turn the Rockets around. He turned the Rockets into a playoff team, and helped to lure McGrady to the Rockets. He also made the Rockets one of the most popular sports franchises in the world. These are great accomplishments. He is very likable and has great work ethic. But, his on court plays haven't been good enough. When you watch him play, you can tell he's pretty good, but far from being great.

    Yao's first year showed glimpse of greatness. His passing, imagination, outside shooting and finess shows signs of him being a future HOFer and could possibly change the game of basketball like Kareem, Wilt and Shaq did. However, ever since JVG took over, his moves got reduced. His passing skills aren't utilized. His imagination is gone. His outside shooting disappeared. He became "just another pretty good center". It clear that JVG wants Yao to become a Patrick Ewing, and he even brough Ewing in to help Yao to become him.

    That's why I am frustrated and disappointed. Yao is very good, and I am happy. However, it's disappointing to see a player like Yao has become who he is right now --- "just another pretty good center". We Rockets fans have to defend him constantly for being the starter on an allstar team. Aren't we just tired of all that? I want to defend Yao for being the league MVP. I want to defend Yao for being considered one of the greatest centers ever, not a f***ing starter on an allstar team. You remember the dreams we had during Yao's first year? Now look at what he is. You can't tell me this isn't disappointing.
     
  4. Kyrodis

    Kyrodis Member

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    Then again, it's only disappointing if you had those lofty expectations to begin with. How many #1 picks since Duncan have truly "turned their franchises around." Not even Lebron can really make that claim, failing to make the playoffs two years in a row. Cavs management had to get him help before they became they became the good team they are now.

    I distinctly remember EVERY sports journalist saying he'd be the biggest bust of all time. I distinctly remember the Rockets organization saying that he'd be a 3-year project and would be averaging roughly 13/8 NOW. After showing everyone that he wouldn't be the bust or project, everyone jumped onto the "next great center" bandwagon. Where the hell is the middle ground? Frankly, he's actually exceeded my expectations. I'm not disappointed at all.
     
  5. zhao1109

    zhao1109 Member

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    YAO is 20, 10 player now and will be 22, 10. If he can read the court better and be that AXIS of ROX offense, he will be our Tim Duncan.

    Also, his defense is heavily underrated. He is good 1-to-1 defender and an excellent team defender
     
  6. DeAleck

    DeAleck Member

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    I know this argument will come up and I respectfully but totally disagree. Many people thought he will be the "next great center", and many people thought he will be a total bust. I don't have to base my expectation on either of those two OPINIONS. I base my expectation on these two FACTS:

    1. Yao was drafted #1, and became the first international player to be drafted at that position. When you are drafted this high, you bring expectations with you. You can't use the Olowokandis and Joe Smiths to justify this, because those guys are considered busts. There is a reason for this. When you are #1 and you are only "servicable", you are a bust. When you are #1 and you are only "good", you are disappointing. When you are #1 and you are "great", that's acceptable. That's why you can't blame people for having high expecations for a #1 pick. Think about it, people think Patrick Ewing was a disappointment, and he was the league MVP + 50 greatest player ever + dream team Olympian + NBA finalist. Compared to Ewing, people's expectation on Yao is very mild.

    2. During his rookie season and even sophomore season, he showed flashes and glimpses of greatness. His combination of size, imagination, work-ethic, shooting and passing skills was unprecedented. When you saw him play, you knew he had the potential to be great. You just knew. From where he was to where he is right now, this is disappointing. Although he make progress in term of stats, but he is not "great", and hasn't fulfilled the potential he showed during his first two years.
     
  7. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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  8. ubigred

    ubigred Member

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    and it comes into the light. All this arguing and we come to the same conclusion Yao is good not great. DeAleck does not hate Yao , he is just stating the obvious and loves the rockets very much.
     
  9. ubigred

    ubigred Member

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    your wrong , check my previous posts.

    Look for me wearing a throwback Yao jersey on sat. night cheering my ass off. Then on sunday call me a Yao hater.
     
  10. DeAleck

    DeAleck Member

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    Of course I do. I spend too $%$# much time on the Rockets if I don't love them.

    We do have the same conclusion. Yao is "just another pretty good center". However, here is caveat: Yao had the talent to be great. Does he still have the talent? YES! Will it be cultivated? I DON'T KNOW AND I DOUBT IT. One thing is for sure. I like JVG as a coach. I really do! You can find some threads I started saying JVG is a great coach. He is a great coach. However, there is no way Yao's talent gets cultivated fully under JVG.
     
  11. ubigred

    ubigred Member

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    Awwwww Damn DA we something good going , until you mentioned JVG. I respect your opinion about him , but why is he so stubborn??? His offense has the creativity of a flat tire.
     
  12. DeAleck

    DeAleck Member

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    I agree. This IS NOT a Lakers board, and Yao is not Kobe.

    On a Lakers board, you can't say anything negative about Kobe. Their mods are Kobe jock sniffers. They lock you, make fun of you, change your posts if you post anything negative about Kobe. Kobe is a total *******, but on their sites, you have to say he's a saint, otherwise you are banned.

    Here, objectively pointing out Yao's shortcomings and your disappointment don't make you a Yao hater. See, I am the thread starter, and I said Yao's the only center scoring over 20 points per game. However, I also stated my disappointment of him. There is nothing wrong with that.

    Again, this is not a Lakers board, and Yao is not Kobe. RocketForever, please stop making me feel like being on a Lakers board.
     
  13. DeAleck

    DeAleck Member

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    Well, being stubborn and unimaginative is OK. It really is, as long as you are a great coach. People have been criticizing Jerry Sloan for being too stubborn, (BTW, he's destroying Deron Williams in Utah). People criticize Larry Brown for being too stubborn, people criticize Popvich for being stubborn. What's the common denominator they have? THEY ARE ALL GREAT COACHES! You can be stubborn and dull as hell, but if your team plays defense and plays hard, you usually win, and sometimes wins championships, as long as the coach has these two conditions:

    1. Your roster is healthy.

    2. Your roster is filled with your style of players.

    3. You have the full backing of the management.

    Is Jerry Sloan a great coach? Look at him last year, his team got decimated by injuries. Is Larry Brown a great coach? Look at him this year, his team doesn't have his type of players.

    JVG this year SHOULD get a free pass because of the injuries. His team plays hard and plays good D. That's good enough in my book.

    However, relating to Yao... that's another story.
     
  14. RocketForever

    RocketForever Member

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    My problem is not with what he said about Yao in his posts today. Actually I agree with him that some other posters have gone too far to say Yao is at the same level as Tim Duncan already or even better. I agree Yao is very good now, but not yet great. I did have problems with some of the past posts of this dude. Do a search for his past posts then make your own judgement. And I am not the only one here to hold this opinion. This ubigred is kinda wellknown for his personal crusade against a certain player on this Rockets team which he claimed he loves (cough).

    Anyway, I am out of this one. You guys have fun.
     
    #94 RocketForever, Feb 9, 2006
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2006
  15. Nick

    Nick Member

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    I'm not trying to slight Yao, but the fact that no other true big man is averaging 20 points a game simply shows how far the center position has fallen from its height of prominance in the old days, and its resurrgance throughout the 80's and 90's (with a mild deference to Jordan, Bird, and Magic).

    In fact, I know we all like to bash Ewing for turning Yao into what he is now... but Ewing was averaging 22 and 9 in his 4th year, and elevated that to 28 and 11 in his 5th year.

    The bottom line is that the center position is no longer what it once was... and if you have a big man who could be dominant night-in and night-out, you could have a dynasty on your hands.

    Somewhere, Hakeem, David Robinson, and Kareem are rolling over in their preverbial graves...
     
  16. xcomputerman

    xcomputerman Contributing Member

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    Or could it be because of league rule changes that favor jump shooters over low post players? We do have a lot of good talent at the center position ... Yao, Shaq, Amare, Howard, Okafor, Camby ... it seems they're all suffering the effects of these new rules that favor backcourt-based offenses. The most productive person in that group is Amare, and I don't think even he is better than Yao, but he tends to be more productive mostly because of Steve Nash.

    Nah, if the center position has declined, it's because the league caused it to become that way. Back in the day Shaq could bully his way around the paint and rack up points. These days if you're a center someone slaps your face and you get called for an offensive foul. Yao comes out of games looking like a heavyweight boxer after a 12 round beating, with swellings and bloody scratches all over his face. And then once he gets off getting mauled and lynched on the court, he gets mauled and lynched by fairweather fans and clueless sports analysts who ceaselessly assail him for not being the second incarnation of Wilt Chamberlain.

    How else do you explain a jump shooter racking up 81 points in a game? Not that it's an accomplishment to be scoffed at, but when you can't even breathe on a guy for fear of sending him to the foul line, it sure doesn't hurt the chances. Look at the Sixers game. Juwan Howard would actually jump out of Allen Iverson's way and still get called for a foul. I could go on.
     
  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Yeah, it is because of the zone defense, you could not front Yao if no one could guard him from the backside as well.

    The new rules SUCK, if Yao played in the non-zone era he would be a 24ppg scorer already.

    DD
     
  18. Kyrodis

    Kyrodis Member

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    I think it's a combination of both the rule changes and the decline in big men. Fact of the matter is, big men rely a great deal more on fundamentals than a backcourt player. Shaq is a bit of an aberration in that he's extremely athletic for a 340 lb. man. He was able to drop step with blinding speed and push his way through traffic before you could even blink.

    Big men in today's NBA lack what had defined the big man in the past: a fundamentally sound, low-post, back-to-the-basket game. When you think back to the types of games that Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, and other centers of the previous generation had...they were all quite comfortable with their backs against the basket.

    Sure, they had highlight reel dunks every now and then, but they relied mostly on fakes and maneuvering around the basket to get an open shot. Nowadays, most big men are more obsessed with bulling their way to the basket and getting on Sportscenter instead of utilizing post moves to get an open shot.

    Naturally, the rule changes haven't helped either. Not only do big men no longer utilize the subtle moves of the fundamental post game, but it's harder for the few who do such as Duncan, Yao, Gasol, and perhaps Brand/Garnett to be as effective.
     
  19. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    Dude, you're all over the map. I'm not sure where you're going with this. Let's recap: I said Yao is not on Tim Duncan's level ... you implied I was biased and pulled efficiency out to show they were basically on the same level. I said the difference between Yao-Duncan is the same as Yao-Diaw on that chart. You said that if Duncan is so much better than Yao, then Yao must be so much better than those players.

    Congrats, you win! Based on the stat that you have proclaimed to be the end-all, be-all stat for which level a player is on, Yao is on a different level than Dalembert, Big Z and Boris Diaw!

    Now, what this has to do with Duncan-Yao is anyone's guess. Duncan is a career 22.3 points, 12.1 boards, 3.1 assists, 2.5 blocks and has 2.5 championship rings. Yao has career numbers of 16.7 points, 8.6 boards, 1.3 assists, 1.8 blocks and is dangerously close to his second lotto season in 4 years. Yao is trying to reach 20 points a game... Duncan has never finished a season under it. Ever. In fact, Duncan's lowest output in any season of points, rebounds, blocks, steals and assists has never been as low as Yao Ming's highest output in any season in those categories.

    "Duncan is on another level than Yao" -- it's not meant to anger... it's a very simple statement and should be universally understood in NBA circles. People who take offense to the statement are either very biased or not too bright about the game of basketball.
     
  20. KWA8272

    KWA8272 Member

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    No one will want to be you if you are so easy to be replaced. Please study more and write this low class comment any more. ;)
     

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