I haven't seen the guy play, as I'm not in Houston, and pretty much just rely on the box scores, but the guy seems to be a real steal. I've seen a lot of hype and things around the board on him. I'm just wondering if he's the real deal. These stats he's been throwing up are very nice. They have me wondering two things: Could he be Stromile's ticket out the door? With Mr. Hayes playing so well, do we really need three decent power forwards. Sure, we've been plagued by injuries, but do we actually NEED Juwan Howard, Stromile, Hayes, and Bowen? In my opinion, from what I've seen (which I admit isn't very much), Hayes is playing well enough to make Stromile expendable. Jeff Van Gundy seems like he's slowly getting around to this logic also. The problem is just figuring out who would be the best fit, and who could be put to the most use. My second question is that I'm wondering whether or not Hayes has enough to be a starter. Juwan was putting up HUGE numbers when McGrady and Yao were out, but now that they're both back, we necessarily don't need those huge numbers. Besides, I really think we could use a nice inside spark off the bench, something which Stromile is too inconsistent to provide. In my opinion, Hayes' stats seem to be a Jerome Williams-type. (Once again, I admit I've never seen him play, so correct me if I'm wrong) Even if you don't wanna bench Juwan, Hayes is short for a forward - would he be quick enough to play Small Forward? Sorry, I'm just rambling now.
Actually, I think J-ho should go to the bench.....Hayes and Tmac work that Pick and Roll better than anyone else on the team. And, Tmac and Yao need more possessions and Hayes gives them that. I may go against convention and start Hayes, he is getting 8pts and 8 boards in limited minutes. I would pump him up !! DD
See that's what my motivation for this thread was. I've been noticing that in a couple games where he got lots of minutes, the guy put up double doubles. His averages are very nice for his minutes. I'd like to see what he could do with 30 minutes a game or so. It seems there is some reasoning to start him, also. I really think he'd average at least what Juwan does.
I think the only thing that would keep me from starting Hayes over Juwan is the fact that he picks up a lot of rookie fouls, and would not last for big minutes. His defense and rebounding are so much better than Juwan's. Offensively, I wouldn't worry about Hayes hurting us too much because he is a much better finisher around the basket. He lacks the jumper, so that would change things up a bit, but he still finds ways to score. Then again, I think Hayes is also the better sparkplug off the bench. I guess it doesn't matter as long as he gets significant minutes.
jerome williams is a pretty good comparison in terms of the proper role--25 minutes a game off the bench, expect double digit rebounds every night and some physical play. jerome had a larger skill set than hayes does, however--he could grab a defensive rebound and start a fast break by himself, without having to wait for a point guard. i don't think hayes is starting quality PF or SF for a team that has championship aspirations. there's just no way he can defend elite 6'10 power forwards for 35 minutes a night--he's pretty strong, but simply doesn't have the bulk to make up for his lack of size (like barkley or unseld). mediocre guys, sure--but once you get to rasheed wallace and tim duncan, you need someone else. as for SF, i think he's quick enough to guard most SF around the league. the problem is, it takes him away from the basket where he does most of his damage in terms of defense and rebounding. a guy like shawn marion is able to dominate the boards at SF because of his combination of long arms, quickness, athleticism, and awareness. hayes only possesses the awareness. i also think that a defensive SF needs to at least have a respectable 3 point shot if he's going to start (bruce bowen, james posey) on a good team. jerome williams was never really able to carve out a role as a consistent starter on a good team because of his physical limitations. hayes can be a good backup 3/4, with specialized skills, like jerome williams/corliss williamson/darvin ham. all of these guys were able to impact the game with their physical play, but it's not enough to hold down a starting position.
Yep, I'd start Hayes over Howard and bring Howard in for scoring with the second team. In tonight's game, there were at least four offensive possessions where Hayes was the first guy down to the other end and posted up right in the middle of the paint. The ball handlers didn't get it to him, they probably don't have that much confidence yet in his offensive abilities, totally understandable. But he will ignite our fast break because he rebounds like mad, and he gets the ball out quickly, and he gets down the floor like a guard. Funny thing is, the Bucks kept trying to post him up with Bogut and it didn't work. Hayes is so strong and his hands are so quick that for every post up bucket they get over him, they are gonna get 3 turnovers or bad shots out of it. I think the only reason he isn't getting even more minutes is because of the fact that he gets cheap, bad fouls called against him. The stupid refs just won't give him the benefit of the doubt and in fact they go the other way in giving his man the benefit of the doubt. One play tonight, he very clearly slapped the ball right out of Bogut's hands when Bogut turned and went up for the shot. That play was clean and his jersey had Pippen or Malone on the back of it, it would have never been called a foul. He picked up 3 fouls in the first half in like 8 minutes or so.
The biggest asset i think is his ability to guard the quicker 4s. He can stay in front of his man very well, and he's strong enough to guard the bigger 4s. Contests shots very very well even at his size.
i guess i interpreted the post wrong. short term plans, not long term. in that case, yes, i'd start hayes. forget about saving him for energy off the bench--get off to an aggressive start and build a lead, rather than relying on bench players to display energy. play him until he gets tired or fouls out. get rid of swift for anything resembling a rotation player or decent draft pick. if it's about comparing him to swift and howard, there's no question. howard is overmatched in terms of size and strength when it comes to elite power forwards, so you're losing nothing there. howard's mid range shot is on one night, off the next--not a reliable weapon anyway. swift doesn't even look like he enjoys playing. long term--obviously still looking for a tall power forward who can defend the post and hit the mid range jumpshot (horace grant, pj brown, rasheed wallace, even udonis haslem).
I've really been impressed with Hayes positional defense and basketball instincts. He's one of those right-place-at-the-right-time guys. He seems to know how to play off of McGrady and Yao, and is a pretty decent passer too. He has a really bad hitch in his jump shot (I really noticed this at open practice), and I haven't seen him post up much. He cuts to the basket very well. If he can control his fouls and improve his jump shot, he's got a good shot at competing for the starting job. I think he's a much better defender than Juwan or Swift.
off topic, but some comments on juwan. he's never really been a very good PF. even in his best year, before the bullets traded for chris webber, he played for a horrible team and was able to average about 20 and 10--but it's kind of like al harrington and joe johnson having good years for atlanta, it doesn't mean much. he's always been too weak to carry out the necessary role of a physical PF--rebounding, post defense (one on one defense). he was too slow to play SF when webber came to play PF, and he never developed a 3 point shot. he doesn't possess the skills to fulfill the role of either SF or PF--similar to antawn jamison, although jamison is such a great natural scorer that it masks his deficiencies as a complete player. jamison also still has instincts of being a post player/rebounder from college. juwan has always been a professional in every sense, however--never once seen him give less than full effort with any of his teams.
Others have pointed this out: he is too undersize for PF (for a championship-caliber team), with so-so speed for SF. He would be a good bench players though.
All I can say is that Hayes wants to play every night he's on the court, but he's never gonna be able to play PF for the Rockets with his size...you know my position on the Rockets need of keeping Swift and making him play but I know he's not motivated enough to get some starting time... So like I said before I think they should just trade him and try to play with a Howard/Hayes combination or something
One thing I've noticed is that Hayes actually uses his smaller size to his advantage when rebouding. A couple of times, I've seen the bigger player have inside position, but Hayes manages to go under the bigger player's arms and steal the rebound away. Also, he and Yao team up well because the opposing players focus on keeping Yao away from the ball, so Hayes just slithers in and gets the board. Of course, the main reason he's successful is his tenacity. He just wants the ball more than anyone else. I agree that he's probably not starter material at his size, but I think he could be an ideal backup. I'd love to see how he'd respond to a summer of NBA-quality training.
I agree he is short, but he has more heart than most, and that will get him a long long way. Dennis Rodman survived, and even thrived on heart. Chuck can be our Rodman with more skills. DD
Unless Comcast decides to broadcast 2 games on one station thus making me miss the first half last nite....still pissed
Hayes is one of the few bright spots in otherwise dismal season. He "wants" to play, he has fire. I can see it in his face even on the bench. This team is one of the most passionless team I have ever seen. They all seem to have the same "laidback" personality. The Rockets desperately need a "Sura" type player to infuse some "fire" into their game. And this kid has major basketball instincts. He seems to be where ever the ball is. The other night Griffin (Wolves) was invisible while playing. You constantly "see" Hayes, he is everywhere. I love the kid.
THANK YOU, my thoughts exactly--whats more, I see Hayes REALLY frustrating Josh Howard. Hayes is our Josh Howard answer and the spark that we need to contend with tweeners like him. At only 6'6", I am amazed that he is getting at least one to multiple blocks a game in his limited minutes.
