[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

Rhester - You make some valid points. The best I have heard yet, but I think you are downplaying the ability of Reggie Bush too much. What this guy did in College was nuts. There is a reason he destroyed Vince Young in the Heisman voting on all events leading up to the Rose Bowl. The Rose Bowl has definately made things confusing, but at this point Vince Youngs ability translated into the NFL is still a major question. I would rather put David Car at the helm, as he has proven he can win with an 8 win season, and draft Reggie a sure fire offensive weapon and star. Picking a good QB in the draft in the past has proven just as difficult as any other position. You speak too confidently regarding Vince Young and how he will preform in the NFL, and I just dont see how you can. QB is not about physical ability as much as mental ability. Whereas, Reggie Bush is a flat out athlete that you can use anywhere on the field.

In my opinion RB is just more of a sure thing.

 

Skip Bayless must read this BBS, welcome aboard Skip, hook up for the ride.

GO TEXANS & Vince Young !

DD

 

In today's edition of the Arizona Republic, their columnist who specializes in (for lack of a better term) Sports Gossip had a blurb saying Vince has yet to hire an agent and is having second thoughts about coming out early. Is this guy talking out his behind or has anyone else heard this?

(Saw it in print, can't find it on thier site.)

 

Running backs are a dime a dozen. Denver is a perfect example that with the right system a team can pickup a 1,000 yd rusher pretty easily. YaoMing, I'm not sure if you're aware of this but Reggie Bush was behind Vince Young for most of the year in the ESPN Heisman polls up to the second to last game of the regular season. For good reason too, he was underperforming. It wasn't until his breakout 500+ yd. game against a very slow Fresno St. squad that his stock skyrocketed and everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started drinking the USC Kool-Aid. THAT is the reason Reggie destroyed Vince in the Heisman voting.

Great QBs are extremely hard to come by. . . is VY a guaranteed great QB? Absolutely not, but can you pass on a possible great, HOF, franchise QB? IMO You can't. I think if you go back and look at some of the UT games this season and listen to some of Vince's interviews you'll realize the mental ability and workethic is defintely there for Vince. A great leader at quarterback makes the whole team better, and I don't think there's any doubt of VY's leadership. A good site to visit is http://www.jcdenton40.com/ It has a lot of UT highlight clips over the past few years. There's even a clip titled "Vince Young shows incredible arm strength". I encourage any doubters to flip through the clips, there are some nice long passes in there.

I'll take Skip Bayless's comparison to MJ goes one step further, VY will likely also be drafted 3rd overall. . .

 

I'm an idiot... here it is off the front of their Sports page:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0113p2main0113.html

Eyes of Texas on Young

Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 13, 2006 12:00 AM

Now that Reggie Bush has made it official and announced that he will forgo his final season at Southern California to jump to the NFL, it looks like it's going to be a terrific draft.

At least, it will be unless there's some truth to what we read on ProFootballTalk.com's rumor mill about Texas quarterback Vince Young possibly having second thoughts.

Young evidently hasn't hired an agent yet and, according to the report, NFL insiders "expect" Texas coach Mack Brown to try to convince Young to change his mind.
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Well, duh. Of course Brown should make one last pitch. After all, the guy doesn't have a quarterback groomed to replace Young.

He's going to have to go with freshmen or a junior college transfer, and that's no recipe for a repeat.

Unfortunately for Brown, we figure the conversation will go something like this:

Young: "Coach, you wanted to see me?"

Brown: "Hey big fella. C'mon in here. Take my chair. Have your hired an agent yet?

Young: "Not yet."

Brown: "Good. Good. You know, it's not too late to change your mind if you don't have an agent. You could come back and win another national title, probably a Heisman Trophy."

Young: "What if I got hurt?"

Brown: "They have insurance for that sort of thing."

Young: "Yeah? Who's paying the premiums?"

Brown: "Well, you'd probably have to get some help from your family with that. My hands are tied there."

Young: "But I'd only collect if I got hurt so badly I couldn't play as a pro at all."

Brown: "Vince, you're a big, strong kid. You'll be fine. And if you have a big year, you might be the No. 1 pick. The best you're going to do now is No. 3, the way I see it."

Young: "Way I see it, Matt Leinart is going to drop to No. 3 - and he would have been No. 1 a year ago. What's he got to show for going back besides one credit for ballroom dancing?"

Brown: "Alyssa Milano? Look, Vince, I'm in kind of a fix here. I got nobody at quarterback. Did I mention the Heisman? That's immortality right there."

Young: "I got $20 million in signing bonuses and incentives coming. I can commission a life-sized bronze of myself in the Heisman pose and let you put it outside the stadium. That would be a kick."

Brown: "Oh, uh, yeah. That's great. Where did you say you're at with the agent again?"

Vince: "I'm interviewing candidates."

Brown: "Mind if I fill out an application?"

 

This was a good read, cause it points to the fact that there are a lot of people in the NFL and within the organization that are a LOT more qualified than the average joe fan when it comes to evaluating and selecting talent.


Jan. 13, 2006, 12:46AM
Bush gives Texans best route to wins

By JOHN P. LOPEZ
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

The Texans' decision-makers met Tuesday and Wednesday to wrap up discussions on whom to hire as head coach.

The meetings ended exactly how we expected they would: Gary Kubiak is their man.

The only thing left to do is wait for a Denver Broncos playoff loss so Texans owner Bob McNair can announce Kubiak as Dom Capers' successor.

But along the way toward bringing one hometown boy home, Texans leadership used the interviewing process to help make a more important, even tougher call regarding the great Vince Young or Reggie Bush debate.

With seven top NFL minds at their disposal during the interviews, McNair and his top advisers decided to use the coaches as a panel of experts, so to speak, on top of their scouting and personnel staff.

And the survey says ...
They asked each candidate to evaluate David Carr. And McNair and Co. wanted details.

Critique Carr's performance. What kind of leadership do you think Carr displayed? What would you do different? Rank Carr among all NFL quarterbacks. Can you win with him?

All seven candidates voiced the same opinion. Carr is not the problem.

The Texans then asked each candidate about Bush and pressed Fresno State's Pat Hill, a former NFL personnel man whose team played USC this season, meaning he had watched about 10 games' worth of tape on Bush.

Again, it was unanimous. All seven told the Texans: Draft Bush.

Thus, McNair will approach the Vince vs. Reggie debate, which became official Thursday when Bush declared for the 2006 draft, the way he does every decision. He will have done his research. And he will have perspective.

He will hear the calls for the hometown hero and understand them. He will be sympathetic to them, and part of McNair will want to act on the sentimental lure of Young.

McNair knows the score
But in the end McNair will listen to the reason and logic of NFL experts, including Kubiak, and make Bush the face of his franchise.

After all, more than anything, McNair wants to win. As Charley Casserly and his staff are breaking down tape and scheduling visits and tests of NFL prospects, McNair's only instruction has been to find a way to get wins quickly.

That's why as soon as the Broncos' season is over, when McNair stands in front of reporters to announce Kubiak as the next coach, he also should announce that he and the front office have decided on Bush as the No. 1 pick.

End the debate. Why let the point-counterpoint go on for another three months, when McNair knows what his club should do with the No. 1 pick?

Seven head coaching candidates, the Texans' personnel staff, consultant Dan Reeves and various other owners and general managers with whom McNair has talked say Carr is playoff-caliber and Bush is the right pick.

Why, in essence, trade Carr and Bush for Young?

Stand there next to Kubiak, who will have at his disposal a three-pronged arsenal of Carr, Bush and Andre Johnson, and announce: "We love Vince Young. We expect him to be a tremendous talent for a long time in the NFL. We would love to see him in a Houston Texans uniform someday. But with Reggie Bush, we know we can compete for a playoff berth next season."

McNair has made billions from making well-researched decisions and never making the same mistake twice. He has told Kubiak that hiring top-level assistants will not be a problem.

If it takes a $1 million a year contract to lure a defensive coordinator who will implement a 4-3 defense and bring an edge to the defensive side of the ball, so be it. If Kubiak wants a quarterbacks coach to also work with Carr — which he does — fine.

Kubiak will serve as offensive coordinator and will call the plays, but if he wants the best offensive line coach available? Go get him, Kubiak has been told.

McNair will equip the new coach with every resource available toward winning and winning soon. As tempting as it might be, why, then, should he make Kubiak wait on Young to develop? Kubiak would rather win now than later.

Every piece of advice McNair has received from NFL people, including his new coach, has been the same: Stick with Carr and take Bush.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/lopez/texans/3584478.html

 

I agree that Bob McNair will have the final say on the decision.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that I'm sure that Bob McNair is a big fan of football, not just the Texans. Unless he's been in a Texans only vacuum, I think that it could be easy for him to have followed Vince for the past few years and could maybe even be a fan of Vince.

I think that he could want to take Vince just to see how the whole thing works out, even if it doesn't make perfect football sense. It definitely makes business and marketability sense. Worst case is that Vince doesn't work out at QB, but if he is given a reasonable opportunity to play QB in the league and he fails, he will still make one hell of a wide receiver and won't be a complete waste of pick a la Ryan Leaf.

This board is mostly pro Vince, but I think that it's generally up in the air about which player will be the better NFL prospect. It's not a no-brainer even from the most objective observers, so why not go with the hometown guy with the huge upside potential, that will give your franchise an identity that will solidify the entire fanbase?

 

I wonder how many of those people around the table had ever won a Super Bowl with talent they evaluated?

Are these the same people who wanted Ryan Leaf, or Tim Couch, or Curtis Ennis......

Experts......my arse !

It is all up to the work ethic, mindset, and the situation that the player gets drafted into.....plenty of players that are not mentally tough enough end up average or busts (See David Carr).

What if Reggie Bush can't run between the tackles? What if he turns into a glorified punt returner? There is no can't miss tag on Bush or Young....

But Young would be a bigger mismatch at QB than Bush would be at RB....hell Willie Parker was undrafted and he is a good RB...RBs are far easier to come by than QBs that are athletic freaks and proven winners....

You build around a QB, not a RB....

DD

 

No matter who you think is the right pick, I think we call all agree it would quite silly for the Texans to annouce who they have decided on prior to draft day.

 

R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D. Lopez, you are a grade A idiot.

That's like hiring someone only on the basis of a good resume. If this were the case in real life, I wouldn't be freaking out about the internship interviews I have coming up in the next few weeks. On the strength of my resume alone, someone would just give me a job without even bothering to check if I'm truly a good fit for the organization. Good freaking God, I would expect the Texans to be a little more careful than that. If McNair truly loves research and opinions, I expect him to use the upcoming combines, Wonderlic scores, and individual workouts to help make the selection. If that pick is still Bush, then so be it, but you don't end the debate today just because you want everyone to get off your jock about Vince Young. That's completely, totally, absolutely irresponsible and ridiculously short-sighted for the organization. But... I really don't think the Texans will declare Bush the #1 pick until much, much later, anyway. So... I'm left with my original assessment: Lopez is an idiot. (Sadly, this is not exactly shocking information.)

 

I agree.

I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I would call anyone an idiot if they think we will win 10-12 games next year and make the playoffs. I could see the argument if we played in the NFC....

 

Even if you have your heart set on something, that still doesn't mean you don't conntinue to weigh all your options till the last possible moment. You never know, a Vince Young could come out of nowhere. So Lopez is wrong in that sense. But I liked the fact that McNair used the interviews as another way of evaluating the talent he currently has on this squad. And all signs point to David Carr not being the problem. And yes I know, just because he's not the problem doesn' t mean he's the solution either. Still I think this team would benefit more from drafting Bush.

 

I think it's gonna be Bush.

 

Agreed, this isn't a very good article by Lopez. Anyone who thinks Bush can take a 2-12 team to the playoffs is completely delusional. On top of that, he wants the Texans announce who they're going to take 3 months before the draft?

I guess Lopez is already tired of hearing about VY and Bush. Other than the coaching information, this wasn't a very good article.

 

Reason 1 - Dan Reeves has recommended to the Houston Texans organization that David Carr is a quality QB that has the tools to be a succesful QB in this league.


This was before Vince set the world on fire winning the National Championship, Rose Bowl MVP, and of course he had not announced he was coming out yet.


This would lead us to believe they are leaning towards keeping David Carr.


If they were going to trade Carr (this year or next) do you think they would go around dissing him? No.


Reason 2 - The leading candidate for the Texans coaching spot Gary Kubiak has also provided favorable reviews for David Carr at the QB position during interviews with the Texans.

"I think, first off, he's got tremendous ability," Kubiak said of Carr. "We all know he's a great kid. . . . He'd be a joy to work with. He's got some weapons around him to help make him better."


This is a tepid endorsement at best ~ "He's a great kid" - please...


The key word in that quote above is "weapons around him." Who is more of a weapon then Reggie Bush. This would lead us to believe again they are leaning towards keeping D. Carr and drafting Bush if Kubiak is the coach.


You're reaching big time here ~ Carr would need the 5th battalion to break .500 through a full season.


Reason 3 - Reggie Bush is a RB, and Vince Young is a QB. The Texans dont need a QB, and we all know the development of a QB in this league takes some time.


Carr has had 4 years of development and has a 18-46 starting record to show for it ~ we need a QB.


Reggie is also a more versataile player as explained by Casserly:

"If you have a Reggie Bush, he's an explosive player.

"I think he gives you a lot of options, plus he gives you a touchdown-maker and another playmaker on offense."


More versatile than Vince [467 - 3 tds]... Well I guess Vince doesn't return punts, but why would we waste a #1 on a punt returner?


Reason 4 - Reggie Bush won the heisman trophy!


Vince won the National Championship and Rose Bowl MVP and it wasn't even close (Bush stood on the sidelines during USC's biggest play -- MVP?)


Reason 5 - Reggie Bush is a more well rounded human being.





CASE DISMISSED

 

Dude,

That is the most pathetic and desperate response I have seen yet. Now you are bashing the reported "Expert Panel" of NFL figures. Ill tell you one thing. I gaurnatee every single one of them has more clout in their left pinky nail then you will ever have. If I owned a franchise Im definately leaving things up to you

Here is a "What if" for you...

What if Vince Young is actually a good QB in this league?

There is more question surrounding Young's ability to avoid the next level speed of D Lineman in this league. Reggie Bush will absolutely be one of the fastest humans in the NFL.

 

I'm not sold on Reggie's speed or escapability. If he was that good, why wasn't he able to elude the Texas defenders more often? He had an ok game, but didn't look like the "fastest human in the NFL" against a college defense. Shouldn't he have been able to elude a good-but-not-great linebacking crew?

 

And a 3 time Super Bowl winner who is arguably the best QB in the league and one of the most proven winners ever was drafted in the 6th round. Does that mean great QB's are easy to come by?

 

Wait a sec... Am I wrong, or is Bush supporter John Lopez an Aggie (like others on this board, including Reggietodd)? Hmmmm. If so, it seems I can play the bias card as well.

 

Just for the record I'm not an Aggie, but I've been a Longhorn fan all my life. And if I had to choose, I'd prefer that we draft Bush.