What's the 0-60 times on one of those bad boys? ------------------ "I'll tell you this, the older I get, the less I trust people. It's true. It's damn true." -- gr8-1 going through some growing pains.
I saw a cnn report the other day talking about a bmw 7 series hydrogen powered. ------------------ American business long ago gave up on demanding that prospective employees be honest and hardworking. It has even stopped hoping for employees who are educated enough that they can tell the difference between the men's room and the women's room without having little pictures on the doors.
DoD: Hydrogen fuel cells are a pet issue of mine. It's estimated that costs can be eventually reduced to about half what you pay for coal-electricity right now (which is currently the cheapest mass-energy source). The problem is creating an economy of scale; sort of a catch-22. Fuel cells are two degrees removed from being main-stream, right now though. Fuel cells are a great storage mechanism; but if the initial energy source isn't clean, then it's pointless. I like the mixed bag approach of using whatever renewable source is near you to generate hydrogen fuel cells; solar most places, but wind and hydro in others. Won't happen any time soon though (and that's not a shot at Bush, I realize a Democrat wouldn't do it either). ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
Ford Focus FCV out in 2004 ------------------ Reactions after The Rockets got Eddie Griffin for 3 draft picks "Eddie For 3 ... Yes!!! O Mother!!!!!!!"
Why not? Is it any more flammable than gasoline? At least in a way that somehow makes it more dangerous? ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page
uhhhh, yes. H2 is very flammable. Remember the Hindenberg? Let's just put it this way: there's a reason they have helium balloons now, not hydrogen balloons. Also this is the reason that you are supposed to clamp to a ground when jump-starting a battery. Car batteries can leak off hydrogen and if there is a spark the hydrogen can blow. The ground is to prevent sparks when starting the car. dylan, your friendly neighborhood chemist (who has to edit his message cause he can't spell his own name) ------------------ [This message has been edited by dylan (edited July 24, 2001).]
dylan: Liquid hydrogen is very flammable. Fuel cells are less of a risk than gasoline. Of course, I don't understand the physics of it... just what I've read . ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
Liquid hydrogen is more flammable the gasoline, just as gaseous hydrogen is. Fuel cells are safer than gasoline because a) fuel cells are less likely to leak and b) if they do the hydrogen gas will diffuse through the atmosphere faster than gasoline would evaporate. Not a question of physics, just a question of chemistry. So you can take you sticky-tounge smily and shove it, pal. dylan, who can't type worth a damn today, and is too impatient to actually proof-read his messages... ------------------ [This message has been edited by dylan (edited July 24, 2001).]
Dreamer, I was just making a wisecrack. Actually, from everything I've read, liquid hydrogen is really no more flammable than other types of fuels. Of course, although physics and chemistry were my favorite subjects in high school, I don't remember squat from them. As for the Hindenburg explosion. The common belief that the hydrogen caused the thing to explode and ignite has been disproven somewhat. A few years ago a NASA scientist said the cloth used to cover the Hindenburg probably caused it to engulf in flames far faster than anything the hydrogen did. ------------------ "I'll tell you this, the older I get, the less I trust people. It's true. It's damn true." -- gr8-1 going through some growing pains.
Fuel Cells can solve the world energy crisis take a look at the facts , these numbers blow me away . For those of you who don't know , Fuel Cells are what you get by Combining Hydrogen (The most abudant resource on the planet)with Oxygen to create power , The only emission of the fuel cell is Water Vapor (2hydogen1oxygen=H20) BENEFITS OF FUEL CELLS A mere one percent of the global vehicle market, 450,000 vehicles, would mean an another $2 billion or more. Another recent study projected global demand for transportation fuel cells in 2007 at $9 billion. Energy Security. U.S. energy dependence is higher today than it was during the "oil shock" of the 1970's, and oil imports are projected to increase. Passenger vehicles alone consume 6 million barrels of oil every single day, equivalent to 85% of oil imports. If just 20 percent of cars used fuel cells, we could cut oil imports by 1.5 million barrels every day. If every new vehicle sold in the U.S. next year was equipped with a 60kw fuel cell, we would double the amount of the country's available electricity supply. 10,000 fuel cell vehicles running on non-petroleum fuel would reduce oil consumption by 6.98 million gallons per year. Clean and Efficient. Fuel cells could dramatically reduce urban air pollution, decrease oil imports, reduce the trade deficit and produce American jobs. The U.S. Department of Energy projects that if a mere 10% of automobiles nationwide were powered by fuel cells, regulated air pollutants would be cut by one million tons per year and 60 million tons of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide would be eliminated. DOE projects that the same number of fuel cell cars would cut oil imports by 800,000 barrels a day -- about 13 percent of total imports. Fuel Cell Emissions Fuel cells running on hydrogen derived from a renewable source will be nothing but water vapor. Economic Growth Fuel cells could create new markets for steel, electronics, electrical and control industries and other equipment suppliers. They could provide tens of thousands of high-quality jobs and reduce trade deficits. The consulting firm Arthur D. Little projects that fuel cell sales could reach $4 billion by the year 2002, with a market of 1,500-2,000 MW per year. The consultants estimate that each 1,000 MW will create 5,000 jobs. If just 20 percent of cars used fuel cells, 800,000 jobs would be created.* ------------------ Reactions after The Rockets got Eddie Griffin for 3 draft picks "Eddie For 3 ... Yes!!! O Mother!!!!!!!"
I myself can't wait until the NeCar line is available. ------------------ Ceo of the Walt Williams and Lisa Malosky fan club. atheistalliance.org
Fuel cells are great, but I know the biggest prohibitive factor in using them in the past has been their cost. They've been around since the 1800's. lol. Obviously there's something holding us back... I read a paper on them a couple of years ago and from what I remember, the cost that say an industry like the auto industry would incur for doing R&D in the field was too huge for them to even entertain the idea. I remember the paper talked about the auto industry needing the aid of the Department of Energy in the form of funds to do the research. The other most prohibitive factor of course would be... where do you go fill up on Hydrogen and for God's sake, don't light a match! ------------------ "I'll tell you this, the older I get, the less I trust people. It's true. It's damn true." -- gr8-1 going through some growing pains.
Actually, the push for fuel cells has heated up recently. As usual, all it took was the army to get involved. The soldier of the future is going to be a walking circuit board and is going to need abundant energy to run his little toys. Enter fuel cells. I had some guys approach me earlier this year through a friend at a military contractor to get some thoughts on how and to whom they would market their particular technology for civilian use in remote areas. Their's used ammonia to supply the liquid hydrogen (pulling apart the nitrogen and the hydrogen). Old technology but new catalysts that make the units much smaller. They had some great gadgets. Their military prototypes were no larger than a role of toilet paper and were going to get smaller. The civilian side was sort of interesting but economically they missed the big picture. This particular group was still a year away from having something practical but they were on the right track and the race is on with other companies doing the same thing. But as far as the fuel cell car of the future -- too many economies depend on oil. ------------------ I let the dogs out.
Fuel cells may end up saving the world. The only thing holding them back is the cost of storing hydrogen at the low temperature necessary to maintain a liquid state. Also, the fuel tank in the vehicle would have to store the fuel at the really low temp as welll, so that is an expensive problem. Once that is sorted out, fuel cells will replace gasoline, and slow down global warming. Of course, none of this will happen until the democrats are back in power, because the republicans simply won't allow something to replace precious gasoline and oil. ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks!
I didn't know the world needed saving. Aqueous or higher BP liquids pretty much are utilized to supply the hydrogen already. No feasible technology uses liquid H2. I'll sleep better now. That's actually pretty funny for 1:50 in the morning and almost not worth responding to but what the heck: Just for clarity, our gov't is made up of three branches. The executive branch has been held by the dems for 8 of the last 8.5 years. The legislative branch was controlled by dems prior to that. So, I would probably put away the unilateral conservative conspiracy theories. Unless of course they also controlled the governments of the FSU and Western Europe and were able to suppress them from developing technologies indepedently. Now, if you do want to talk about the influence of the GOP on world energy pricing, we might find some common ground. Such as Reagan and the Saudis keeping the price of oil down at $15 in the 1980's and essentially bankrupting the USSR. ------------------ I let the dogs out. [This message has been edited by Jumanji (edited July 25, 2001).]
The cost of fuel is one cost problem, but also the infrastucture. We already have power lines and power plants in place, take notes California. The cost to change to Fuel Cell power would be astonomical. When people talk about fuel costs, they forget taxes. Maybe the goverment won't tax FC. Tidbits - Reagan's ploy with Russia was great. Texas has built more power plants since '96, than Cali has since '84. Why do they have a shortage? ------------------ T-Pooh and BahDakota went up the hill, to make a bet on a Forward. When it all came down, they were nowhere to be found. Now they should be drawn and quartered.
there was a little blurb in popular science this issue about an electric car that can doo over 180 mph. and can drive for about 200 miles. and do all of this in a one hour charge. it was ugly, but who knew electric could make a 500 HP monster, that has the range necessery to commute to work and much more ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
