Hmmmmm....Let's look at the facts here..... Gapo'.... Turncoat(Balimbing) van driver(bugaw).....GI..... Now I know why...
just saying "innocent until proven guilty" or as in this case "guilty until proven innocent". this case just looks familiar (girl claiming rape, driver turned witness, no GI in my case, but a bunch of pinoy teenagers celebrating ). girl claimed rape, driver turned witness, girl represented by a lawyer who needs a big case so he/she can turn around and run for a public office and get rich. And if you are not Pinoy and lived in the PI, particulary in the poorest areas of the one of 7000 islands, then you don't have any idea what's going on behind the scenes here. The GI's could be guilty here for all I care, but there are things here beyond the case that foreigners don't understand... I'll just leave it at that...
jamma34, Mr. Clutch: You are both correct. As Major said, I think jamma34 was trying to draw a parallel with the "honor killings" thread and texxx/jorge's laughable premise. Mr. Clutch wasn't indicting Islam here. It's a fact that some Muslims do call for jihad in the name of Islam. We can argue whether they are justified or whether Islam sanctions this, but I think it's disingenuous to deny its existance.
Let's see... an isolated incident of alleged rape vs Thousands (annually) of community-accepted murders of non-virgin women Yeah, that's a parallel!
His point was that it's ridiculous to blame the religion based on the ethnicity of the perpetrators. Your point in that thread was to somehow show causation and acceptance in Islam.
If thousands of honor killings occur each year, and the murderer is not punished, wouldn't that be acceptance by the community? And wouldn't the strict moral code of Islam be at least partially responsible as a motivation in the crime? To me, the combination of the strict moral code, the overall attitude towards women, and the fact that honor killings are almost exclusive to Muslim people tells me that religion is at least *in part* a factor in the process.
Yes, but if I understood correctly in the other thread, your point was not acceptance by the community but acceptance in Islam. That area is not governed by Islamic law. A religion cannot be held accountable for the actions of its followers. You just aren't very familiar with the region. This is not inherent of Muslims. Furthermore, how many husbands or boyfriends murder their significant other in America annually? The number probably isn't nearly as high because we're talking about a developed society here, but still, you can't draw the connection of a crime based on anger to anyone's religion. religion has a grasp over people throughout many cultures and these cultural influences always play a part.
The point is that in America, these crimes are *punished* by death, as was mentioned in the other thread. In Islamic cultures, they are accepted. That's the whole point. This acceptance is due in part to the strict moral code advocated by Islamic teachers. Rage and anger is simply human nature. The institutions that encourage it and preach it as a way of living are in the wrong. America does not do these things, while some Islamic cultures obviously do, as evidenced by the honor killings.
If this thread is in response to the honor killing thread, this is pathetic and plain stupid. TJ summed it up best. And there are sects of Christians and Jews who would commit "honor killings" if it was accepted and not punished. If authorities chose to research the motivation behind honor killings, the first thing they would look at is religion. I can't say the same for rape. There are many other articles that could have been better used to make your point. The only thing you're trying to accomplish is to prove a point to TJ or Texx. Get a life and take the drama elsewhere.
Just so you know, if strict Islamic moral code is applied, those who commit honor killings would be put to death. The reason why they are at times tolerated (the fact is they are for the most part punishable by law in almost all Muslim-majority states, including Pakistan) is as I've said in the other thread: they are deemed as 'tribal matters' by the authorities and are left alone to the local tribes. Do you know another less-common alternative that has been practiced in the past to avenge 'tribal honor'? That would be a few men seeking an unmarried woman from the other tribe and raping her to return the favor, thereby 'avenging' the family/tribal honor. An "Islamic moral code" would NOT tolerate any of this, and in both cases would result in the perpetrators being put to death. If you claim otherwise, then please put forth conclusive passages from the Koran that sanction such actions. Let's argue based on facts here, T_J, not what you are desperate to believe is true...
Actually, as others have pointed out, that's simply false. Muslims in the US don't go around do this. Other religions in that part of the world do. It's not hard to connect the dots and show that its a cultural thing. Beyond that, some people in these threads need to learn to read the articles they reference. Somehow, people started thinking these killings are accepted parts of the culture, never mind that the people doing them were arrested because it is illegal. Nothing in the article suggested that those honor killings were accepted, and more than murder is accepted here.
See, I don't a lot of people will think much of the Koran if it prescribes death to anyone. To me your arguments fall flat. That kind of violence, even though seemingly justified, does nothing but condones the use of violence. To many it's unnaceptable.
What? What is "Islamic culture"? If you're saying this is cultural, that is what I have been saying. How is this advocated by "Islamic teachers"? These crimes would be punishable by death if this took place in an Islamic government. It's like you are trying to indict Islam for not taking action against these honor killings, but Islamic jurisprudence hasn't even been given a chance. You just say it's Islamic culture - what's the only thing that stands out in this equation? Culture. You then cite "Islamic teachers" that advocate this?...::
How much do you know of Islamic Cultures? Malaysia is an Islamic Culture and even calls itself an Islamic Republic but I'm not aware of a lot of honor killings and any that happen are certainly punishable by death. Honor rapes are punishible by death too. Again you are mistaking culture with religion. Islam is a religion that spans a lot of cultures and there is no single Islamic culture as there is a single Buddhist or Christian culture.
My whole point is that the religion influences the culture. In these poverty-stricken third world countries where Islam thrives, the moral code of the religion has a tremendous influence on behavior and societal norms.
To each his own... You call it violence as if people are going around murdering people randomly for no reason whatsoever. IMO, the death penalty is nothing short of necessary in some cases, and yes I do advocate it and believe it's justified, but should be reserved for the most extreme of crimes. Anyways, that's a different topic really and has been discussed in the past (capital punishment, yay or nay etc).
agreed, and moral killings is one thing that they didnt pick up from religion... and unless you can prove that they did, you have no basis for your claim.
