yea that was dumb. They would of got swept like the magic , because who would of held THE DREAM? He would of avg. (29pts 12rbs and 2.5 blks)
I respect that argument, but when I think about players like Dirk, for example, who also lead their teams in an enormity of categories, but never quite get there, I don't know, I'm kind of reminded of Pippen. He just wasn't a leader...he was born to be a sidekick - which is great, and he did a great job of it, but I think it is wrong to overstate that. I don't think Kobe had quite made it into elite status until after that season and the Blazers were a deeper bunch, but its all argumentative. Regardless, the only player on either team with 6 rings, who, if you are to believe some arguments here, should have known how to lead his team, was on the one who crumbled in the 4th quarter in almost as historic a way as possible.
So Pippen wasn't a leader on the Bulls (especially defensively)? So I guess Clyde wasn't a leader on the Rockets since he played sidekick to Dream. I guess McHale & Parish weren't leaders on the Celtics. Dumars wasn't a leader in Detroit. Need more? Pippen was an integral part of 6 title teams. MJ won nothing without him. Those are facts (I don't even think he won a playoff series....but I may be wrong about this one). So assume Pippen choked his heart away in that one quarter (since I guess it's him vs the Lakers solo), does that take away from the numerous moments he came up big in 6 title runs?
My last thought on the subject, though it may sound like a broken record. The guy REFUSED to enter a game in the key moments because he was being a baby. That's as simple as it gets, and tells me all I need to know.
I understand where your coming from, but say pippen is a Hall of Famer or a Top 50 that is saying too much. Dominique Wilkins is not even a Hall of Famer.
pippen came from a team that had MJ, the greatest ever to save his ass. u notice the 2 years MJ didnt play (at least the whole time) Pippen looked like crap and quit on the team when they didnt call his number to take a last shot, and it was pippen who choked big time wiht the rockets against the lakers in the playoffs
I'm trying to be objective, but I ask again, if pippen was so great, should it have mattered what system he played in? do you think jordan would have been hampered by the system? he's a very good player, some of the crap he has pulled in his career pulls his legacy down. and if he said he didn't get his credit in chicago, he's delusional.
Pippen isn't a great offensive player, so in that case the system does matter. Whether he is top 50 is debatable (I need to see the list again), but he is definately HOF. Please name me 10 better SF's? Additionally, name me a better one in the league when the Bulls were winning 6 of 8?
and that's why I think he's overrated. he's a very good defensive player, and like T-Mac, had the athleticism to cover many different players. but he's not as good offensively as people say, he's was good at setting up the triangle. that offense was built for his talent as much as jordan. he could come down pass to jordan cut or wait for a pass back to the top. but if you asked him to drive to the bucket, it would've have hampered him. I must say though, he and jordan were very good on the fast break together. edit: in other words, he could do a lot of things offensively, but he couldn't create his own shot, which I think is a requirement to be considered great offensively. honestly, I could see his frustration in houston. he wasn't used properly and he could have been. he could have done the same things he did in chicago, but rudy didn't ask for much movement, and while he was a good spot up shooter, he wasted away standing around waiting for barkley and hakeem to make their moves. but he should've know what he was getting himself into.
I think there is many sides to this issue. Micheal Jordan, Barkeley's buddy, said to him that he would never win a ring. Barkeley just didn't have the work ethic to get himself over the top. Recall the drinking, overweight camp showing, tossing punks through windows, gambling, etc. Barkeley did take a $1 million salary but partially, that was also to express gratitude to the Rockets for trading Big Shot Bob and Sam I Am for him. Hakeem is more difficult. I recall Hakeem as never being quite the same after getting hip checked by Shawn Bradley. Later, Barkeley suffered the same thing and was never quite the same either. Perhaps Hakeem was a combination of nagging injury fed to a degree by a sense of complacency after winning two rings. The combo of the two can sap alot out of a person. There was an article I read way back when which talks about how Pippen and Jordan would get up early every morning and hit the weight room. The rest of their Bulls teammates were implicitly expected to do the same. The implicit expectations set by the Jordan/Pippen combo had alot to do with the Bulls winning culture. Barkeley, however, only got himself in shape when he felt like it. That was anathema to how Jordan/Pippen ran the ship in Chicago.
I always thought Hakeem just never liked playing with barkley, and he showed a renewed since of enthusiasm that last stretch of games he was here in 01 that helped that team almost make the playoffs.
That's the HOF selection committee's fault, not Pippen's. And hooi does have a point. I remember reading about how Jordan told Barkley he'd never win a ring because of his work ethics. Barkley could have been a top 20 all-time great in NBA history if he had better conditioning, motivationg, etc. I'm just amazed he was that good for so long w/o putting much work into it (aside from the year he won the MVP and took the Suns to the Finals). I'm still confused as to who are saying that Pippen was an offensive weapon? This has been thrown around a lot and I don't get how it got started. He was a good scorer at best but nothing fancy.
He wasn't an offensive weapon (i.e. star go to go on offense, as he did lead the Bulls in scoring in 93/94), but he wasn't a liability either.
It's obvious the rockets did not want to when, otherwise they would not have signed Pippen, look at all those championships Pippen has won when Jordan was not on his team.
LOL! I love how people interpret things whatever way they want to satisfy their prejudiced views of a player OK, then it's official: Whenever the Rockets win the championship, Yao is going to be remembered for riding McGrady's coattails, and when the Lakers won it, it was Kobe riding Shaq's wagon to win three rings. Pathetic, really pathetic.
The number one way that RJ is not Pippen is that RJ can not shoot from the outside. Pippen had a much better outside shot than RJ has. Pippen is an ass because he never took responsibility for anything that happened. In Houston he blamed the team, Hakeem, Barkley, and everyone else. Yet he was the one that in that final game blew it all. He never took responsibility for that. In Portland he blamed coaches, teammates, etc. Yet especially on that team he was supposed to be the leader. The guy is a quitter, a whiner, and someone who isn't man enough to admit his mistakes.
It's kind of funny that people say how Pippen is the greatest ALL AROUND player and then turn around and say that he didn't do well here because he was NOT a jumpshooter. If he's a great all around player, then by definition he had to be a very good jumpshooter. Look, Pippen is a great player and arguably a top 50 all time. But he is a prick. I hated him even before his antic with the Rockets. In fact, what he did and what he said did not surprise me at all. He is that kind of a guy. I am glad that he wasn't a Rocket for very long.
What's more pathetic is that you can't take your blinders off and see that what I said is basically the same thing jsavoyt said. How many titles would Jordan have won without Pippen? Honestly? Take Pippen out of those teams and put in a decent small forward. A young Robert Horry even. You honestly think they would have won anything? You think Jordan would have won one much less 6? How come you didn't mention Drexler coming here for our 2nd ring in your satiric response? Do I think the Rockets could have won the 2nd one w/o Drexler? Absolutely not. But do I think the Rockets could have won a ring w/o him? Absolutely and they did it the year before. Bottom line: You can't try to prove an unknown conclusion (i.e. Jordan would have won championships w/o Pippen) to be factual if that situation hasn't even presented itself yet. You can prove that Hakeem can win one w/o Drexler because it happened. You can prove that Duncan can win one w/o Robinson because it happened. What you can't say is that Jordan would have won w/o Pippen or Shaq would have won w/o Kobe because that situation hasn't presented itself. As for when the Rockets win a championship with Tmac and Yao, I would hope that people wouldn't deride Yao into 'riding coattails' status like they've done w/ Pippen. If you know a player was the 2nd best on the team and played a big part in the championship, he wasn't riding any coattail.
