Pro-Democracy Demonstration in Hong Kong

While I somewhat agree with your take on the motivation behind the *pro-democracy* movement in Hong Kong, I find it uneasy that you keep calling PRC repressive. I know at least a dozen or so of my friends/colleagues going back to China, after many years of living and working in the US, the greatest democracy ever seen on earth. If China were so repressive, why would they go back? My point is that PRC, despite being not as open and free as the US yet, is at least a tolerable country in the eyes of many overseas Chinese, who have lived both worlds.

Do you see Jews who fled Germany during the Nazi era go back to their country while Hitler was still in power? Did the people of Soviet Union who escaped the regime return to their homeland before the fall of Berlin Wall?

 

Is Democracy the best answer? With Democracy - you have politicians spending tons of cash bowing down to special interest groups. It seems that all the Western Democracies are gravitating towards socialist states with chronic budget deficits and insurmountable debt. Here in the US - it is political suicide to suggest tax hikes AND redeuced govt spending (look at the policies of the party in power). But then again - i suppose it's a lot better than a lot of dictatorships.

Well from what it sounds like - Hong Kong is pretty much the same as it was under the UK - except citizenship is divided along racial lines (thx Sishir for answering that). Are Asian people born in England considered UK citizens?

 

bigtexxx, are you there? You can put Reuters on your black list with my authorization.

Reuters reporting *democracy movement* in Hong Kong is like student newspaper covering demonstration of students demanding less homework.

 

There are lots of problems in democracy, especially in the early stage. There are even chaos, just look at the ridiculous violent scences in Taiwan parliment. But it's still the best thing so far. I would prefer a Northern European democracy which leans towards socialism in things like public health and social welfare. Democracy systematically prevents dictatorship. Any uncontrolled power will eventually lead to dictatorship, no matter how wise that leader is or will be. All human beings are the same, greed and selfish at some point, to some degree. Hong Kong people wanting democracy is not a praise to Britain colonization, and it's not an attack on PRC, it's just human nature. If one doesn't need to worry about survival, he/she tends to demand more freedom and democracy and more say in all the matters.

 

That I have to agree, China is making a lot of progress in that area, thanks improved economy and living standard, also thanks to Internet. Although there is still a long way to go, before legit and real opposition parties emerge, I do think people need to be more open-minded and objective towards PRC, especially those people who still see China with a cold war mindset. They see PRC as the same as 20 years ago, just with higher GDP, which is greatly mistaken.

 

Well, I guess not being from China or Hong Kong gives me a lack of perspective, but I find it funny how mainlanders keep talking about Hong Kong wanting their "masters" back. Seems to me like they don't want any masters and that's the point of this movement.

 

No, I do not want to be actually ruled by the Kings because chances are for every good one you get 99 bad ones. The US system may not be very efficient or produce good leaders but it is still the best model over the long run. I only point out that Democracy is not always the high priority of everyone, especially for the residents of Hong Kong who has really very few things they really need to complain about.

 

Well, we can't tell others what their priority should be or what they should be complaining about, can we?

 

China is controlled by communists but no one follows the hardcore communists' belief anymore. The communism party in China is just like a typical political party (like republicans, democrat, etc).... which is also the only party in China. Overall, the Chinese government is not comfortable when things are out of their control... They want to do things according to their own schedule and that's why it drives them nuts when Bush keeps trying to tell them what to do in terms of human right and Taiwan and such and such...

So when the HK people ask for open election in such a dreadful way, the China government is not going to be happy, and they will try to impose more control on the HK people... This makes HK people not happy, and they will fight back in a more dreadful way, and so on... and chief executive is the one sorta in the middle of them.

 

the stupidest thing that the idiot movement can do is to organize more protests, and make more stupid accussations about the PRC. All it does is encourage the government to be even more strict to "save face." You'd think these people would remember how other Chinese people think. If they shut up about it, and let things progress the way it's been going in the last 10-15 years, they'll get what they want in no time, and they won't have a pissed off government to deal with. This is what happens when you expose them to the Internets where they can read about how badly the PRC is suppressing them

 

On a side note, I'm hoping to do *attempt* my PhD on this period (in particular the carving of China period during the late 19th century). Of course I have to get my masters first

 

Very true, from where I'm sitting. I don't understand the reaction of some here to the protests for greater democracy in Hong Kong. They were promised democracy under the "two systems, one country" concept, were they not? They are speaking out more for what they were promised. It's not like they are protesting in favor of China removing it's sovereignty.

China is making great strides towards a democratic government, but they still have a long way to go. Cracking down on what appears to be legitimate protests sends the opposite message to the world, Hong Kong, and the Chinese people, in my opinion. Does China have enormous economic freedom, compared to what existed 10 or 20 years ago? And much more freedom of expression? Of course they do. It may not fit our parameters in the United States, but great strides have been made, greater than the progress towards democracy, as known in democratic societies around the world.

I'm thrilled that the people of Hong Kong are expressing their desires for greater democracy. I don't think the Chinese government needs to fear these types of demonstrations. If they don't interfere, then the people of Hong Kong will feel that progress is being made. Political demonstrations are a time-honored tradition here in the States. I participated in many of them against the war in Vietnam, as well as more traditional ones in support of one candidate or another over the years.

The PRC should relax and chill out. They have Hong Kong. Living up to the agreements made when the colony was handed over will reflect well on the Chinese government, and enhance it's standing in the world among the other democracies. I've been to Hong Kong, and I wish them well, along with the Chinese people in the rest of the country. I hope the trend towards democracy and greater freedom continues. We are having to work in the United States to reverse the opposite trends in this country, where a minority of extremists currently hold sway. That will change here, as it always does, eventually... not soon enough for me.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

All nice and well meaning statements. However, think about it if you were a country that was already moving towards democracy, and then to be told that the perfect model for democracy was a country in which the current president stole his first election, literally...prisoners get tortured like any other non-democractic countries...you can only be a leader if you are significantly rich to begin with...the media distorts their reportings to fit the news outlet's thinking. Right, now all they need is for Jenna Jameson to tell them about how to be a virgin, and we can complete the cycle

 

I've never voted for the fool who's currently President, and have made my feelings towards him plain many times. I will not, however, slam a system that, as imperfect as it is, has served us well for over 200 years. It's no accident that people from around the world still flock to come here. As I said in my post, Bush and his ilk will be gone soon. Not as soon as I'd like, but that's how our system is. If you have read this forum at all since he was "elected" in 2000, you would find it stuffed with criticism of Bush, the Republican Party, and their policies, as well as many peole who worked for their defeat in the elections. Bush, and the other Rerpublican extremists, will pay a heavy political price during the upcoming election cycle. His supporters would be the last to admit it, but the prospect has them quaking in their boots.

I think you are a bit sensitive to anything that could be construed as criticism of your country, if it is, in fact, your country. Get over it. I criticize my own country all the time. That's what people in democracies do, and it's OK. Trying to put simplistic views on this complex country, just as doing the same would be with China, is a bit of a stretch. Relax.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

My country is right here in the good ol USA. I don't think I'm being sensitive by trying to understand where the other side is coming from. I mean that is how liberals think, isn't it? Or does that not apply when the shoe's on the other foot?

 

I have shoes on both my feet.



Keep D&D Civil.