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Coalition wants constitutional amendment against gay marriage

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by mc mark, Jul 10, 2001.

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  1. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    NEW YORK (July 10, 2001 2:50 p.m. EDT) - Worried that courts might legitimize gay marriages, a coalition of religious leaders and family-policy experts seeks to amend the U.S. Constitution with a declaration that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.

    The Federal Marriage Amendment, to be presented Thursday at a news conference in Washington, would require ratification by both houses of Congress and the legislatures of 38 states to become law.

    Gay-rights advocates describe the initiative as "gay-bashing," while its backers say the amendment would prevent judges from setting family policies that lack public support.

    Matt Daniels, executive director of the Alliance for Marriage, said coalition members decided to propose the amendment because of fears that Vermont's year-old civil union law - granting marriage-like rights to same-sex couples - would spawn lawsuits nationwide by gays seeking similar rights.

    "Let's challenge the homosexual movement to play fair on the playing field of democracy," Daniels said. "If they want the benefits of marriage allocated to a wider circle of groups, they need to convince the majority of people that it's the right thing."

    The idea of a marriage amendment was raised in 1998 by an alliance of conservative Christian groups. Daniels' coalition doesn't include those organizations, but its 45-member advisory board has a strong religious tilt, including leaders of major black denominations, an Episcopal bishop, several Roman Catholic officials, and representatives of Jewish and Muslim groups.

    Its lay members include professors from Princeton University, Amherst College and the law schools of Harvard, Notre Dame and Louisiana State.

    Daniels said members of Congress from both parties were prepared to support the amendment, but their names will be released later - not at Thursday's news conference.

    "We believe this is more important than partisan politics, so we'll announce it with no politicians at the microphone," he said.

    Thirty-four states already have adopted so-called "defense of marriage" laws, defining marriage as the union of a man and a woman. Daniels is optimistic that enough state legislatures would ratify the proposed amendment for it to pass.

    However, he said it might take several years to mobilize enough support in Congress. There have been 27 amendments to the Constitution - only one of them ratified since 1971.

    "Congress won't act until the situation is more alarming to more people," Daniels said. "It will require more developments in the courts - but I have no doubt that it will happen."

    Vermont legislators enacted the civil union bill last year in compliance with a state Supreme Court order saying same-sex couples were entitled to the same rights as heterosexual married couples. Since then, more than 2,300 civil union ceremonies have been performed in Vermont, mostly involving out-of-staters.

    Opponents of gay marriage predict that increasing numbers of those non-Vermont couples will turn to the courts in their own states, seeking recognition of their union.

    One such case is now before Georgia's Court of Appeals, while seven Massachusetts couples have sued to overturn their state's ban on same-sex marriages.

    The spokesman for a major gay-rights organization, David Smith of the Human Rights Council, denounced the proposed amendment as "a mean-spirited attack on gay families."

    "It would create a constitutionally mandated second class of citizens," he said.

    Daniels, however, said his Alexandria, Va.-based alliance was taking a "reasonable, centrist approach."

    The amendment was supported in an editorial this month in the conservative magazine National Review, which called it "the only sure way to prevent a harmful and antidemocratic revolution in American law."

    As drafted, the amendment would be just two sentences:

    "Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman.

    "Neither this Constitution or the constitution of any state, nor state or federal law, shall be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups."


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    #1 mc mark, Jul 10, 2001
  2. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    Never get done. They couldn't get this past both Houses of Congress right now, but even if they could, forget about the 38 state legislatures. There aren't enough State Legislatures willing to expressly outlaw gay marriage to get this through.

    State Legislatures and Congress are still too wary to legalize gay marriage for the most part, but that doesn't mean they are for outlawing it in this way (A Constitutional Amendment), either. Even the "Defense of Marriage" statutes aren't really the same thing.

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    [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited July 10, 2001).]
     
    #2 mrpaige, Jul 10, 2001
  3. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    yeah paige that's what I thought too.

    It just burns me though that people don't have better things to do with their time and money.



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    #3 mc mark, Jul 10, 2001
  4. dylan

    dylan Member

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    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.




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    #4 dylan, Jul 10, 2001
  5. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    Same here. I would think these people could find other area in which to focus their attention that could potentially make the country a better place. But maybe that's just what I think.

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    #5 mrpaige, Jul 10, 2001
  6. rockHEAD

    rockHEAD Member

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    #6 rockHEAD, Jul 10, 2001
  7. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    I imagine Clinton and Gore would both be for this, since they both support the Defense of Marriage Act.
     
    #7 TheFreak, Jul 10, 2001
  8. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Dylan Homosexuals aren't asking for special treatment. They're asking for the same rights that everyone else enjoy.

    Now that's fair




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    #8 mc mark, Jul 10, 2001
  9. dylan

    dylan Member

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    Nono, you misunderstand me. I was just trying to point out that the process of democracy does NOT necessarily create fair outcomes. I am all for gay marriages.


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    #9 dylan, Jul 10, 2001
  10. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Truer words were never spoken!

    sorry about the misunderstanding




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    #10 mc mark, Jul 10, 2001
  11. WasabiTheNinjaPimp

    WasabiTheNinjaPimp Member

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    I've heard a republic defined as two wolves and a sheep voting for dinner as allowed by the law, and the law is "No Eating Lamb".

    That's the main reason we aren't one. You -might- at this very moment have enough people who would vote to outlaw homosexual marriages, but you don't have enough representatives that would. That's why we have representatives, so that the majority DOESN'T always win. Yeah we b**** when it bites us in the ass, (having the use the rule of law that is) but there are times when it is very fortunate we are not a democracy. And these times outnumber the times when it bites us in the ass.


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    #11 WasabiTheNinjaPimp, Jul 10, 2001
  12. haven

    haven Member

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    I love the way that these people would merrily ban abortion, which IS supported by by the majority of the population... but want to use public opinion to ban gay marriage.

    HA HA. Freakin' hypocrites.

    Personally, I could care less what the "majority" thinks, especially since it vascillates so often. But consistency is nice [​IMG]. I prefer to think in terms of "justice" and "fairness."

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    #12 haven, Jul 10, 2001
  13. WasabiTheNinjaPimp

    WasabiTheNinjaPimp Member

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    The main reason we aren't a democracy, not a republic, I had some odd sentence placement there.


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    #13 WasabiTheNinjaPimp, Jul 10, 2001
  14. WasabiTheNinjaPimp

    WasabiTheNinjaPimp Member

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    Two political lessons everyone in politics must learn:

    Lesson A) When you're in the majority, scream loudly that we're a democracy
    Lesson B) When you're in the minority, espouse the virtues of the republic saving the minority from an oppressive majority.

    I wish I could say I was joking.

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    #14 WasabiTheNinjaPimp, Jul 10, 2001
  15. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    What I find astonishing about this type of law is that it is most often presented by conservatives who absolutely demand freedom from governmental regulation for everything EXCEPT what people do in the privacy of their own lives.

    That just amazes me.

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    #15 Jeff, Jul 10, 2001
  16. Kingrene

    Kingrene Member

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    I have not seen the real conservative view presented in this thread.

    Marriage is a religious ceremony that unites a man and a woman together for the purpose of procreation. It can be argued that solid marriages and families are what make our society stable.

    In many people's view, homosexuals are asking society to change the definition of marriage. There can be no "gay marriage"- that term is oxymoronic. It is the homosexuals, some argue, that are asking for a "special right", by demanding that society alter a fundamental cultural ceremony to fit their lifestyle choice.

    Personally, I think the homosexual community is using this issue as a way to gain a foothold in terms of mainstream respectability. This is not about government benefits, but about public acceptance of gay couples as "normal". Unfortunately, they will not win any new friends in the heartland of this country by using government force to demand respect. Homosexuals should take a different course of action if they want middle income, white, Christian, "Joe sixpack" to vote for their causes.

    They have a long uphill struggle for sure.

    PS Personally, I think that government should get out of the "marriage sanctioning" business completely, and then politicians would not have any power over this situation.

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    #16 Kingrene, Jul 10, 2001
  17. Kingrene

    Kingrene Member

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    According to Gallup, on 26% of Americans believe that women should have unlimited abortion rights. If you add the verbage "rape or incest", then the number jumps to 56%. I don't think your statement above is supported by fact. [​IMG]

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    #17 Kingrene, Jul 10, 2001
  18. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    King - explain what you mean by "getting out of the marriage sanctioning business."

    I've also heard it said that many gay activists don't want to win this right. They say that becoming "married" is conforming to a society that already rejects them. Interesting.

    Not sure where I come out on this one. Not sure I care. Ultimately, I am not a big believer that homosexuality is as ok as some folks do. I think the key questions always come down to whether or not this is a class people are born into...or whether it's a choice at some point. I don't wish to debate that...just stating a point.

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    #18 MadMax, Jul 10, 2001
  19. rimbaud

    rimbaud Member
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    Marriage is not just religious...this has been discussed before...

    Anyway, I have known plenty that have only had a civil ceremony.


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    #19 rimbaud, Jul 10, 2001
  20. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    I'm married... I have been for six years. I'm neither religious nor procreating; but I do love my wife more than any person could possibly understand.

    If anyone feels compelled to share their judgments with me, feel free to meet me down at the intersection of 'Holier than Thou Art' and 'I give a **** about your opinion'. We'd have a great conversation, I could judge you, you could judge me...

    Or we could just operate under the simple theory: Mind your own ****ing business.
     
    #20 Achebe, Jul 10, 2001
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