I think they should let Pete in after he's dead. His accomplishments on the baseball diamond cannot be questioned, but I don't like the idea of allowing him to celebrate being inducted into the Hall on a personal level. And since he agreed to a lifetime ban, letting him in after he dies makes sense to me (but I think they should let Shoeless Joe in first). ------------------ Why not visit MovieForums.com? Or FilmDallas.com?
Where is your response to the Steinbrenner question? I've been here all night. ------------------ It looks like a veteran can Be had.
Bob I've been looking at this post for quite some time and I cannot figure out what point your trying to make. Its my understanding Michael Jordan left basketball to pursue a dream his father had for him. What does this have to do with his gambling? Maybe I'm overlooking something obvious, spell it out for me. ------------------
There are those of us who believe that Jordan agreed to a "quiet" 18 month suspension due to his gambling situation. I don't know if that is what BobFinn* believe or not. ------------------
The rules are very clear. Posted in every clubhouse and established by precedent. Associate with gamblers, you are banished for a year or more. Happened to Leo Durocher, happened to others. Gamble on your own team, you are banned for life, happened to Shoeless Joe. MLB has always been wholly consistent in applying its rules about gambling. The "Steinbrenner question" proves MLB's consistency. MLB did not have evidence that Steinbrenner bet on his own team, so MLB did not ban Stein for life. Very simple. Wholly consistent. All established precedent.
OK, jammie, answer this question: What is your opinion on the rule than says anyone on baseball's "banned for life" list cannot be inducted to the HOF? Why can't someone be enshrined yet still remained banned? ------------------ It looks like a veteran can Be had.
Exactly what I meant. The NBA is much more organized as to handling bad situations. Jordan was "suspended" for his gambling. ------------------ "For there is nothing either good or bad, thinking makes it so." - William Shakespeare (1564-1616), Hamlet
What is your opinion on the rule than says anyone on baseball's "banned for life" list cannot be inducted to the HOF? Why can't someone be enshrined yet still remained banned? If the HoF is part of baseball, and he's banned from baseball, does it not make sense that he'd be banned from the HoF? ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
It's MLB's HoF. MLB doesn't want to give its highest honor to someone it has banned. That's their right. MLB makes their own rules about who goes in Hall. If I gave someone a lifetime ban from my house for breaking my house's single capital crime, I certainly wouldn't have that person on my house's Wall Of Fame. I could put that person on my house's WoF, and still ban them, but I wouldn't. I don't expect MLB to enshrine a man who committed MLB's only capital crime. I don't think you or Rose or anyone should attempt to coerce MLB into inducting Rose. MLB's Hall, their rules.
was Jordans "retierment" from b-ball the same as his "broken ribs" while "posting up" ron artest. Just a big cover up to help the king keep his image ------------------
Just out of curiousity, what does it take to make your Wall of Fame? ------------------ It looks like a veteran can Be had.
Drinking 4256 of my bourbons without pouring a single one into any expensive electronic equipment. Or maybe, making 2165 cc.net posts without any racist or homophobic leanings. How about this Behad, Name me some "great hitters" with a lower career OBP than Rose's .377. Or some "great hitters" with a lower career Slugging %age than Rose's .409 .
Hold it, hold it....Are you now saying Rose's stats are not worthy of hall consideration? Pluuueeease. Weak, weak argument. Take away the gambling, and Rose would challenge Seaver as having the highest % of votes for hall election. On a personal note...Would everyone please not post anything for a few hours? I have some real work to do tonight and this place is SOOOOO distracting! ------------------ It looks like a veteran can Be had.
[offtopic]I think Rose is overrated. Lots of hits, nothing else. Low OBP. Low Slugging %. Played too long to pad his counting stats. batted .264 at age 44 in 405 ABs. Will Clark has a higher career OBP and SLG and the same career BA. Obviously, Rose's stats are HoF caliber, but, IMO, he's overrated.[/offtopic] I think Shoeless Joe has a better case. His stats are better. Much higher BA, much higher OBP, 41 steals in 1911 while batting .408. Plus Jackson has a higher career SLG, even though Jackson played almost his whole career in the Dead Ball Era. Rose's counting stats dwarf Jackson's, but Jackson had only 13 seasons to Rose's 24. Jackson apparently had a single interaction with gamblers and was banned for life in the midst of his career. Rose was a habitual gambler who placed Reds bets throughout years of managing the Reds. Jackson set the precedent. A superstar player with one infraction banned for life, and banned from the HoF. Why should Rose be different? Rose, IMO, was guilty of more and bigger gambling sins than Jackson. Rose, IMO, is a lesser baseball player than Jackson. Rose knew about the Jackson precedent. Rose accepted a lifetime ban. Rose is out. I'd be happy to see some Rose memorabilia in the hall, something about his hits record, fine. (If he hadn't sold all his bats and jerseys to pay gambling debts.*) I don't think Rose himself should be inducted. * - again quoting from Will's book : "By 1987 he was losing $30,000 a week to bookies -- $34,000 on a single Super Bowl bet. His need for money intensified his avarice. During the game in which he broke Ty Cobb's career record for most hits, he changed his uniform shirt three times -- one shirt for himself, one for the Reds owner, and one to sell. [some biographer] says that by March 1989, ten collectors claimed to have the bat with which Rose broke Cobb's record." [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited July 09, 2001).]
Just to clarify, Shoeless Joe was obviously not "banned for life" because he's long dead and still banned. ------------------ Why not visit MovieForums.com? Or FilmDallas.com?
eh? He was banned while alive. He was banned for the rest of his live. He was "banned for life". <font face="courier">(shoelessJoe === bannedForLife)</font> TRUE Now, after death, Joe's still banned. Doesn't change the fact that he was "banned for life".
I believe that Judge Landis never used the phrase "banned for life", though when he issued the ban. Plus, the term "banned for life" would tend to imply that one is no longer banned once the life is over. Shoeless Joe has been banned for life and then some. ------------------ Why not visit MovieForums.com? Or FilmDallas.com?
Sorry,jamcracker, but I can't continue this discussion with someone who thinks Pete Rose is overrated. A good career for many is 2000 hits. A great career is 3000. He had 4256 hits! Many players dream of making the all-star team. Some make several teams. Rose was an all-star 17 times, and started an all-star game at 6 different positions. Oh, and how many players can say they had a 44 game hitting streak? Come on jam, saying Pete Rose is overrated is like saying Ryan was an ok pitcher because he was a .500 pitcher. ------------------ It looks like a veteran can Be had.
Oh, BTW, jammie, Brooks Robinson had a career .325 OBP and a .401 slugging percentage, both lower than Rose. And he is a HoFer. ------------------ It looks like a veteran can Be had.
