Howard Dean's Message to the Troops: You Won't Win

Since I don't think it has been mentioned yet in this thread;

I'm sure bigtexxx and trader_jorge would both make excellent soldiers, and would do their country proud by enlisting in the military and volunteering for service in Iraq. I haven't seen either of them give any reason why they'd be ineligible for service to our great country. They may have to put a temporary halt to the womanizing they allegedly involve themselves with, but no doubt they'd be willing to give up something so minor to truly defend their ideals instead of just doing this hollow chest thumping on a BBS.

But, the fact that the most vociferous supporters of the war do nothing to help the cause just gives aid and comfort to our enemies. The terrorists must feel very secure knowing that our best and most patriotic warriors have found it in the nation's best interest to stay at home, visit strip clubs, and type on the internet.

Carry on.

 

I like the term one of our esteemed, pro-war, torture advocating, apologists now uses for democrats; "domestic insurgents." Isn't that just da bomb?

 

To your chagrin, Savage often riles against corporate greed. Another thing I agree with him.

 

our soldiers have their jobs to do and they will do them well.

as civilians here at home, our job is to speak out and keep our leaders in check. not just blindly go along w/ everything they do. that is supporting the troops more than just going along w/ everything the bush administration does.

and where's the outrage at all the stuff republicans said during the kosovo campaign? keep in mind that we were not fighting there for 3 years, we didnt loose 2,000 soldiers and it didnt cost us hundreds of billions of dollars...
http://www.crooksandliars.com/stories/2005/08/17/heresWhatRepublicansSaidAboutClintonAndKosovo.html

"You can support the troops but not the president"
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do."
-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)


For us to call this a victory and to commend the President of the United States as the Commander in Chief showing great leadership in Operation Allied Force is a farce"
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarifiedrules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem."
-Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)

bunch of hypocrites

 

michael weiner is an east coast jew - about the furthest you can get from your typical bush supporter.

 

i call that hypocracy

like limbaugh - 3 times divorcee who ralies on about the sanctity of marriage and a drug addict who said that anyone who uses drugs illegally should be locked up.

bunch of freaking hypocrites

 

Oh I don't know...

You've got your Rumsfeld's, Wolfowitz' and Fleischer's, Woodward's

 

George Bush's Message to the Troops: I have a PR Plan.

 

I think "winning" should be defined as making things better for Iraqis or Americans, not merely remving Sadam or having flawed elections or being in the process of leaving.

Sadam has been removed from power. After killing a 100,000 Iraqis and 2100 Americans, disabling an estimated 20,000 or more permanently we may very well just created a new version of Iran.


Allawi, one of our Iraqi exile guys says that human rights by the new regime just as bad as Sadam with its recently reviewed secret prisons and torture rooms, not to mention the death squads.

At best it looks like we have created another Iran. (They have elections so I guess you consider them fine.)

The facts are that there is one Iraqi batallion of approximately 700 that can fight on its own, about the same as a year ago. "We are in the process" is winning for you. Is there a point where just being in the process is not winning for you.

Per the recent conservative Wash Times, :

Training of Iraq Forces Suffers 'Setback'

By SALLY BUZBEE
Associated Press Writer

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) -- The training of Iraqi security forces has suffered a big "setback" in the last six months, with the army and other forces being increasingly used to settle scores and make other political gains, Iraqi Vice President Ghazi al-Yawer said Monday.

http://ap.washingtontimes.com/dynam..._IRAQ_TRAINING_TROOPS?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME

 

As I mentioned before, you will be considered a moron as a project manager, to claim accomplishment over a project you proposed based on false claims or wrong studies, without clear deliverables and scopes, without budget estimation and just asking for approval of a blank cheque, without clearly defined stake holders and customers, and without a projected timeline. People will be fired without a second review acting like that as a junior project manager in a small firm, but he shall get a free pass as the Command in Chief of the most powerful country. That's why I always say American has a truly great system, where anyone can be the president, without screwing up too much. But I have to correct myself, because as time passing by, in fact, GWB can be that bad, even starting to screw a strong system up.

 

As the Taliban and former Iraqi army well know, there is little more demoralizing than being attacked by something you can't see... something that comes out of nowhere (JDAMs, LGBs, MLRS, snipers etc)
Now our forces are facing the same situation with IED's and walking the streets of Iraq with bullseyes on their BDU's. THAT is demoralizing. Having years pass and still having Iraqi security forces, both police and army, that are still widely reguarded by grunts as useless or even dangerous is demoralizing. Seeing the situation in Iraq get worse and worse as time goes by is demoralizing. Stop loss orders are demoralizing.
Troops running supply convoys that were poorly protected both by unarmored trucks and lack of escort, especially during the first year of the war is demoralizing.

No one has done more to demoralize the troops than the Bush admins ignorant policies and yet moral is still pretty high. The U.S. military is awesome not only because of the high tech tools they wield, but because of the fine individuals who put honor, duty, and brotherhood over everything else. What Dean says is completely insignifigant when compared to going to a fellow soldiers funeral. What the Democrats say has far less impact than the realities of the war they are fighting.

 

good post - i would also add that the president trying to cut troop combat pay is also demoralizing, to say the least.

Unless Congress and President Bush take quick action when Congress returns after Labor Day, the uniformed Americans in Iraq and the 9,000 in Afghanistan will lose a pay increase approved last April of $75 a month in "imminent danger pay" and $150 a month in "family separation allowances."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/08/14/MN94780.DTL

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0803/14paycut.html

 

while cheney's haliburton pals are over there making hundreds of thousands, our troops were having to worry about loosing their already measley $75/month combat pay.

how much did cheney's stock options increase again since we invaded iraq?

Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney has pledged to give proceeds to charity.
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Cheneys_stock_options_rose_3281_last_1011.html

Cheney said Sunday on NBC that since becoming vice president, "I've severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interest. I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had, now, for over three years."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml

LIAR!!!

Along with the 433,000 stock options, “ Cheney still receives about $150,000 a year” from Halliburton.
– CNN, 10/25/03
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=23898

 

Rhadamanthus' message to the troops:

You've been had. This war was meant to:

1) Protect us from WMDs.

There were none,

2) Protect us from terrorists.

It spawned more.

3) Spread freedom and democracy.

Potentially unnatainable, doomed to result in a neverending quagmire.

I cannot express adequately how much I pity you for being so blatently misled, and how sorry I am that those of us that realized the sham putforth by the Bush-Cheney Junta were unable to prevent it. I can only express my deepest desire that you come home now, and vote appropriately in the next election.

 

Any bets that W will announce Victory in Iraq (tm) and an aggressive troup withdrawl plan at the height of the midterm elections? Of course the withdrawl plan won't "happen" until after the elections. Maybe Rove can get another "kick the gays to the curb" referendum going in the close states?

Good times.

 

if you were really a Michael Savage fan, then you wouldn't have a hard time believing it - that is classic Michael Savage rhetoric, I have heard him say similar things before myself

here is another lil story about your "great American"

http://tavernwench.blogspot.com/2005/09/semi-famous-radio-gasbags-behave.html

 

I just wish someone Bush, Democrats, anybody would define winning in Iraq for me. If I new where the finish line was maybe I would be more for "staying the course".

So how long before the Kurds declare their independence?

 

Yeah, I'm sure this makes the troops on the ground feel real swell that the leader of our largest politcal party is already calling their mission a failure. Way to go Dean and any other liberal that agrees with him here. You should all be ashamed of yourselves... it is canon fodder like this crap that gets more of our boys killed. Don't you know the complete lack of support for our mission and troops further strengthens the enemies resolve? They think they are winning because you bastards are telling them we are loosing... and you call yourselves Americans.

Hate Bush and his policies all you want but do NOT take out your hatred for that man out on our men and women over there. I'm ashamed to share the same webspace with you pigs.

 

it was clinton's fault.