1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Bush To Unveil “National Strategy for Victory in Iraq” Tommorow

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by mc mark, Nov 29, 2005.

  1. rhester

    rhester Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,600
    Likes Received:
    104
    Halliburton profits
    Puppet regimes
    Oil and gas pipelines
    Hate escalates
    Terror intensifies
    Soldiers die
    Politicians give speeches
    One dictator replaces another
    Children suffer
    Widows weep
    Money is borrowed
    Bombs explode
    Blood is cheap
    Drugs increased
    Two nations divided
    America and Iraq


    It's not worth it.
     
  2. vwiggin

    vwiggin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    2
    Here comes the pitch.

    Go Bush Go!

    ....

    Man, this introduction is taking forever.
     
  3. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471
    Well I just finished slogging through this "plan" and my first question is why this was a classified document for two years? There is nothing new in it and nothing the no exit strategy president hasn't said at least a few times.

    Second it is really an embarrassingly simple and shallow document. Almost a C grade business school powerpoint presentation. What with the bullets and check mark notations. But having said that, I still don't believe Jr actually put pen to paper and wrote this. Sad really. And the Bushbots will eat it up and declare "See! He has a Plan"!

    Three years' into the war and we get this for a "plan"?

    Nothing new here….Move along…
     
  4. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    I would bet dollars to donuts that Bush mentions some type of troop withdrawal before midterms. It will almost certainly look a lot like the plan set forth by Murtha, but the dittoheads will claim it was all Bush's idea and will repeat the lie that the House rejected Murtha's proposal 400-3.
     
  5. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,943
    Likes Received:
    19,843
    I hope his strategy involves more mounted troops..

    [​IMG]
     
  6. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,050
    Likes Received:
    3,578
    Realistically the strategy for "victory" involves two elements both of which involves great misery for the Iraqi people and the death of many innocent civilians.. 1) bomb the crap out of the Sunnis, civilians too, as our Iraqis cannot fight them without overwhleming airpower. 2) The "Salvador"option" which is the US training and funding of Kurdish and Shia death squads to kill and torture Sunnis who oppose the government. Kill a rebels' family as they probably support him. Bush and gang like this approach and believe in it since they were somewhat successful using these tactics in el Salvador and in Nicaragua. Negroponte and others in the Bush Administration assisted death squads in previous jobs.

    Both of these approaches are being employed now. The only thing certain is that more Iraqis will be killed and tortured.
     
  7. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    32,752
    Likes Received:
    20,509
    Rapid Response: Deconstructing the “National Strategy for Victory in Iraq”
    After two-and-a-half years and 2,110 U.S. fatalities, the Bush administration finally released a “National Strategy for Victory in Iraq” (NSVI). The problem is, it’s not a new strategy for success in Iraq, it’s a public relations document. The strategy describes what has transpired in Iraq to date as a resounding success and stubbornly refuses to establish any standards for accountability. It dismisses serious problems such as the dramatic increase in bombings as “metrics that the terrorists and insurgents want the world to use.” Americans understand it’s time for a new course in Iraq. Unfortunately, this document is little more than an extended justification for a President “determined to stay his course.”

    NO STANDARDS FOR ACCOUNTABILITY: Two weeks ago, the Senate overwhelmingly endorsed an amendment calling on the Bush administration to provide a “schedule” for meeting U.S. objectives in Iraq, “information regarding variables that could alter that schedule, and the reasons for any subsequent changes to that schedule.” The NSVI completely rejects this call. “We will not put a date certain on when each stage of success will be reached,” the document states in bold and italicized print, “because the timing of success depends upon meeting certain conditions, not arbitrary timetables.” The only time frames proposed for achieving U.S. objectives are virtually meaningless phrases: “short term,” “medium term,” and “longer term.” The goals for these time frames are equally ambiguous; the so-called “short term” goals, for instance, are listed as “making steady progress in fighting terrorists, meeting political milestones, building democratic institutions, and standing up security forces.”

    THE NATIONAL PAT ON THE BACK: The NSIV is less of a strategy and more of a pat on the back. Much of the 35 pages is devoted to describing how well things are going. Oddly, the strategy declares on Page 5 that “Our Strategy Is Working.” On the economic front we are told, “Our restore, reform, build, strategy is achieving results.” On the political front: “Our Isolate, Engage, and Build strategy is working.” On the security front: “Our clear, hold, and build strategy is working.” With everything going so well, the NSVI reminds us that “change is coming to the region…From Kuwait to Morocco, Jordan, and Egypt, there are stirrings of political pluralism, often for the first time in generations.”

    REPLACING METRICS WITH EMPTY PHRASES: In late-September, Gen. George Casey Jr., who oversees U.S. forces in Iraq, revealed that “[t]he number of Iraqi army battalions that can fight insurgents without U.S. and coalition help has dropped from three to one.” That meant only 700 Iraq Security forces were rated as “Level 1″ on the four point scale created by the U.S. military. Instead of addressing the problem, they’ve abandoned the ratings system. The NSVI notes that “now more than 120 Iraqi army and police battalions are in the fight.” (The term “in the fight,” used 6 times in the document, is not defined.) The strategy also notes: “As of November 2005, there were more than 212,000 trained and equipped Iraqi Security Forces, compared with 96,000 in September of last year.” It fails to mention that in Feburary 2004, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld claimed there were 210,000 members of the Iraqi Security Forces and “thousand more that are currently in training.”

    DISMISSING INCREASED VIOLENCE: The NSVI emphasizes that U.S. officials “track numerous indicators to map the progress of our strategy,” and offers websites where some of these reports are publicly available. “Americans can read and assess these reports to get a better sense of what is being done in Iraq and the progress being made on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis.” The problem is that these reports have on numerous occasions been found to be inaccurate, or to overstate progress using incomplete or misleading data. Additionally, the document states (in bold print) that these Pentagon statistics “have more strategic significance than the metrics that the terrorists and insurgents want the world to use as a measure of progress or failure: number of bombings.” Surely one needs a wide assortment of statistics to get the full picture from Iraq. But considering the No. 1 “Strategic Pillar” listed in the NSVI is to “Defeat the Terrorists and Neutralize the Insurgency,” it is simply not true to claim that the number of insurgent bombings (now at an all-time high) is irrelevant as a measure of progress.

    IGNORING KEY CHALLENGES: When decorated veteran Rep. Jack Murtha (D-PA) presented his Iraq plan two weeks ago, he offered two primary reasons for supporting redeployment. One was the heavy burden the Iraq war has placed on the U.S. military and its recruitment and retention efforts, many of which are at historically low levels. The second was the shifting sentiments of the Iraqi population; Murtha cited a recent poll that found “over 80 percent of Iraqis are strongly opposed to the presence of coalition troops, and about 45 percent of the Iraqi population believe attacks against American troops are justified.” The NSVI ignores both of these fundamental facts. Virtually nothing is said about the well-being of our military, unquestionably a vital element in any strategy for success. Moreover, it disregards the latest Iraqi public opinion data, stating falsely that violence “has been discredited within and outside Iraq.”
     
  8. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Nice post No Worries.

    This reeks of a public relations maneuver.

    Not to mention another typical piece of Bush Doublespeak. Amazing how some people continue to read this crap like gospel.
     
  9. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    32,752
    Likes Received:
    20,509
    There does not appear to be any substantive change in his Iraqi policies. Just better spin.
     
  10. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471

    And a glossy 35 page pamphlet.
     
  11. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Well, at least Iraqis are reading the same bull***t.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2005113...qkDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

    The bolded portion neatly summarizes just about everything the Bush-Cheney junta attempts.
     
  12. flamingmoe

    flamingmoe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    0
    we've already known that to Bush, the problems in Iraq are just preception problems in need of a good PR push - at what point did anyone actually think these guys would propose pragmatic solutions?
     
  13. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471
    Is there a "National Strategy For catching Bin Ladin"?
     
  14. insane man

    insane man Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,892
    Likes Received:
    5
    dubya wanted me to let you know to stop thinking about the past. think about the future. forward progress. why worry about bin laden when evil cowards like murtha are hurting america.
     
  15. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471
    Pelosi held a news conference today in response to President Bush's Iraq speech and issued this statement (as prepared):

    http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Roll_Call_Pelosi_will_back_Murtha_1130.html

    "What we heard today was a commitment to the status quo - a status quo that is not working.

    "The 'Plan for Victory' backdrop against which the President appeared at the Naval Academy today was no more accurate than the 'Mission Accomplished' backdrop he used over two and a half years ago on the USS Abraham Lincoln.

    "The President did not have a plan for victory when he went into his war of choice in Iraq, and he did not have a plan for victory today.

    "The American people expected that the President would do more today than just put a new cover and 35 pages of rhetoric on old sound bites. What the American people wanted from the President today was some evidence that he has heard their concerns.

    "Clearly, the President fails to understand that a new course is needed in Iraq. The President has dug us into a deep hole in Iraq; it is time for him to stop digging.

    "He offered a status quo plan that would not accelerate the training of Iraqi security forces, would not motivate Iraqis to assume security responsibilities more quickly and bring American troops home.

    "Instead, he suggested that we send more troops and spend more money in Iraq. That is not what the American people want.

    "The President says that the security situation in Iraq is getting better. But just because the President says it, does not make it so.

    "226 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq in just the last three months. The Generals have told us that the presence of large numbers of U.S. forces in Iraq encourages the insurgents. The President provided no specifics on how, or when, the number of troops will be reduced.

    "With more than 2,100 American soldiers killed, thousands more wounded grievously, and hundreds of billions of dollars spent, the President owes the American people more than he provided today.

    "We should follow the lead of Congressman John Murtha, who has put forth a plan to make America safer, to make our military stronger, and to make Iraq more stable. That is what the American people and our troops deserve."
     
  16. Mulder

    Mulder Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 1999
    Messages:
    7,118
    Likes Received:
    81
    strategery
     
  17. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,239
    Likes Received:
    9,215
    murtha stole bush's plan.
     
  18. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,239
    Likes Received:
    9,215
    harry reid says he's dead.
     
  19. Mulder

    Mulder Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 1999
    Messages:
    7,118
    Likes Received:
    81
    Ya, that's it. :rolleyes:
    There is a certain representative in Congress that has a message for Mr. Bush, cowards cut and run... Oh nevermind.
     
  20. flamingmoe

    flamingmoe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    0
    27 seconds:

    The time it took President Bush to reference September 11 in this morning’s Iraq speech.
     

Share This Page