KG and Yao Is a fair comparison...and all you haters need to back off

Smits was on a team where it was loaded with scorers. yao is the second option on a team where it lacks any real scorers. Smits was a similar player. he was a better passer, shooter,and was alot better when it came to court awarness. not saying yao wont be better, but at this point there about the same.

 

Yao Ming = David Robinson/Robert Parish?
A guaranteed contributor, due to sheer physical gifts, but possibly lacking the confidence or leadership to be the best, and beat the best, when it counts.

Trade TMac for KG, then we get our "Tim Duncan," at least in the sense that he "compliments" Yao in the same way Duncan "complimented" Robinson. Then Yao can find out what he's best at: rebounding, defense or low-post scoring, and just focus on that.

Then we get a decent PG who can get them the ball.

 

I'm talking about the culture of suppression of individualism in favor of being a humble, team player (citizen) who is loyal (blindly loyal, without asking questions, for fear of retaliation) to the governmental authority of the country.

And I didn't say he was in the top 5 most skilled big men. I said he was one of the most skilled big men to ever play the game. That doesn't make him one of the best big men to play the game. Dennis Rodman was one of the best rebounders of all time. But that doesn't make him one of the best forwards of all time, not even close.

 

Yao = to the admiral? hahahaha

 

When you compare KG to Yao, you do a disservice to both. Garnett is an MVP candidate every year. It's unrealistic to expect that out of Yao. Even so, as good as KG is, he couldn't lead his team to the playoffs last year, with a lot of good players.

The funny thing is, throughout his career prior to making the Western Conference Finals, the media knocked KG for not taking over in games down the stretch - he was too unselfish. As great as Kevin Garnett is and was, he got a lot of criticism for getting knocked out in the first round of the playoffs like six straight years. Essentially, the media was criticizing Garnett for only playing "Great" instead of being "Legendary". Never mind that his teammates were the weak link.

I think right now Yao is bearing the brunt of the criticism unfairly as well. When your teammates are Ryan Bowen, Juwan Howard, David Wesley, and Luther Head, and you're playing a lot of excellent teams without your best player, do you really expect to beat San Antonio-Detroit-Indiana-Dallas-Phoenix? I think that's optimistic to say the least.

 

I am sick of this stupid ish. It aint hatin', it's being honest.

Besides comparing Kg's 1st four years, which start when he was 18 to Yao at 22 is stupid. Yao does not have the time to develop at a leisurely pace.

Yao is overrated and overpaid. Who cares if, after Shaq, he is the best center in the NBA? That just shows how weak the crop is that a man with immeasurable talent, yet severe problems with conditioning tops the list.

Kobe and Shaq dominated not because it was a C and SG combo, but because they were the two best players in the league.

No matter how refreshingly humble Yao is, we have to be honest. Yao will never, ever, be a top 5 NBA player. We are overpaying him and will be hamstrung with weak depth for the forseeable future if he is not dealt.

Fact is, I am a ROCKET fan first. Yao comes a distant second. If it is better for the team's title chances to deal Yao, I say do it.

 

jopatmc, I must admit that you have made some great statements in this thread and the game thread.

I really like the quote about Kareem and Yao and how their skills are close to the same.

Yao is trying to do and be something that he is not, the next Patrick Ewing. I have nothing against Ewing he was a great center for the Knicks, but he is the wrong teacher for Yao.

When Yao first came into the league we were amazed at his ability to see court and his passing skills. Now every time Yao touches the ball he is jacking up a shot no matter the circumstances. I too am frustrated with his play at times but then I realize he is only doing what he is taught.

Yao has talent that has not been touched yet and I am sure he is also frustrated with his play. He is doing his best to be and become something he's not and that can be frustrating for anyone. Yao is not and never will be a Hakeem, Shaq, Moses or Ewing. These guys were power centers and that was their game, but that is not Yao's game.

So let's look at it this way, if you are walking down the street and a dog on a leash starts to attack you, don't get mad at the dog, get mad at the master for training him that way.

T_Man

 

In the best of worlds, Yao would dominate and make all this drama moot.

The thing that concerns me is his lack of stamina. No matter how much he continues to improve, what good is it if Yao is tugging his shorts throughout the 4th quarter?

I don't care if he's 7 ft 6. I am not interested in excuses. If Yao cannot play at a high level for 32-36 minutes a game, he is an overpaid novelty act that needs to be dealt.

7 ft 6 centers do not grow on trees. Hell, centers do not grow on trees. But thanks to the way refs officiate big men these days, few Cs will ever dominate again.

 

How do you know it's culture and not just his personality?

I think you overrate the skills issue. Skills don't mean anything if you're not physically talented enough to use the skills. In fact I think Yao would be a better player if he were less skilled. At some point, whoever has coached Yao lost sight of the fact that a pretty turn around jumper counts the same as a bull rush and dunk. Two points is two points. Yao can make that jumper but he doesn't have the physical ability to consistently pull it off in this league.

Yao needs to learn that knocking a guy off of him and dunking the ball is better for his team than spinning, whirling, and hitting a pretty fadeaway. Hakeem developed the fadeaway as a necessity to deal with the defense while Yao does it because he at some point was taught that his success as a player is determined by his skill level. You can see this on defense as well when Yao switches out on guards and actually comes out to the perimeter area to defend them. Yao's job on defense should be to clog the middle and rebound the damn ball. Who the heck taught Yao to come out on guards and forwards after a pick and roll? Ridiculous. What does he think he's doing out there? Someone taught him this as a baskeball fundamental and it is but it's not how Yao best helps his team because he can't really guard anyone out on the floor.

Personally I think his timidity on the court has a lot more to do with the coaching he's received and his personality than culture.

 

The problem is, if we trade him now, we wont get anything that even remotly comes to equal value.

 

You get mad at the master, but you put down the dog.

 

What part of 1st 4 years doesn't everybody understand? KG was talented but everybody accused KG of being SOFT in his early years. IIRC, KG didn't shed the "soft" label until about 4 years ago.

Strangely, everybody says Yao is soft too.

ALSO, I don't think the original poster intended to say Yao will turn into a KG clone. Yes, we know KG and Yao will never be similar type players. His point is, KG turned into a monster and his statistic his 1st 4 years are similiar to Yao's. His point is, don't give up on Yao yet...there is still hope.

I don't think Yao will develop into what KG is now because he doesn't have the speed and agility. But to make the comparison is fair. It is fair because Yao still has the potential to be great ...albeit a different kind of player than KG.

And to compare Yao 1st 4 years to Rik Smits is pretty silly.

Smits
11.7 ppg
15.5 ppg
10.9 ppg
13.8 ppg

Only once in his career did Smits ever average 18 ppg and that was his 8th season after which his #'s slowly dropped. So please stop saying Yao is like Rik Smits.

 

A person's personality is developed in their extreme youth and is influenced greatly by the culture and environment that a person is surrounded with. You cannot deny the influence of Eastern philosophy in Yao's Persona.

Do you really think Yao could get by without the offensive foul on the bull rush and dunk????

Interesting thing about Hakeem. When he entered the league, he was known as a physical force, a power center. When he won championships and when he retired he was recognized as a skillz player with more brains and finesse than brute strength. After all, Shaq did make him look like a toothpick out there, not to mention Karl Malone. Hakeem developed all those skills and the fadeaways because the league became more physical and less and less contact was called a foul. If he had played back in the Chamberlain-Russell era, Hakeem would have averaged 35 ppg for his career along with about 18 boards. Those were the days when all contact was called, even in the paint, and the guards were smaller. Hakeem also had stamina issues when he became Muslim and started eating soup for a month every year or whatever it was. By the way, before Rudy T. came along and exploited Hakeem's skills he was on the verge of being traded and was recognized as having a rotten attitude and unwilling to work with his teammates. He kept demanding that the guards throw him the ball and he'd chew their heads off when he didn't feel he got it enough. He was beat up over that in the media over and over again, even called selfish. All that talk changed when we won in 94.

Van Gundy is defining Yao's job on this team, not Yao. I agree with you, he should be clogging the middle defensively and rebounding. Van Gundy has him showing on the picks out at the 3 point line. That's not Yao's fault.

Yao's already shown he has the ability to consistently put down the jumper in this league. It's too late to say he can't pull it off. Yeah, I know he's slow, but he's 7'6". It don't matter that his release is slow, that it takes him 10 seconds to bring the ball up into shooting position. The reason it don't matter is because for the defender to block the shot they've got to come out on him. When that happens, he's got other options, the dribble drive, the Shanghai Spin, the backdown postup, or simply pinpoint a cutter for the layup. Yao needs the basketball in his hands with options available to him. That's where he's best at.

 

If China keeps running Yao ragged every summer, he will age quickly.

Odds are that after 30, Yao will decline. That means he is in his prime NOW or close to it. Does anyone really expect to see Yao overcoming his stamina issues or all of the sudden picking apart double teams with his passing a la Shaq?

Yao is good, talented, and flawed. It will be hard to find equal value in a trade. The Rox owe it to themselves and the fans to try.

(Hakeem is the only exception to the rule of the big man's early decline that I can think of. So don't throw up that atypical example as a defense for Yao. Yao will never be as good as Hakeem was. )

 

My points about Hakeem were 1) the league has become more physical; 2) even Hakeem discovered he wasn't getting the calls and resorted to spins and fadeaways in a lot of situations; 3) everybody wanted to run him out of town before the Rockets won; 4) he struggled with his stamina throughout his career also. I did not say nor do I believe at this point in his career that Yao compares favorably to Hakeem. I'm saying that different points in Hakeem's career, he suffered the same criticisms that Yao is suffering and will suffer. If Yao starts putting up 30 a night on 25-30 shots a night, just wait and see what people will be saying when we drop a couple games. They'll label him a ballhog and too selfish. It's human nature.

 

People should realize that Yao has never been, "the man", on any nba team. He has always had a secondary role, or at the very least a player to share the spotlight with. We should all see this as a blessing, this should help him grow as a player, and will only make he and our other players less reliant on McGrady. In years past McGrady has been a one-man team, I for one am glad to see this change. We'll be back on the rise soon for sure, but in the meanwhile people here should enjoy the development of Yao Ming, and Luther Head.

 

emmm, actually im just guessing those YOF fans aint even in here, Houston or US. coz i would say everything good for the team, just go do it.