I know exactly what you're talking about, but some of the calls early this season have been pretty blatant, such as when Yao is just standing stationary with his arms straight up. I don't think it would strike a chord with so many posters unless there are multiple occasions of such ridiculous calls. In terms of the spin move, he really hasn't been using it too much this year, and when he did, he got by his opponent quickly without needing to use his other arm. I have seen him hip checking guys driving into the lane, but I don't recall seeing too many instances of that this year either. If you're trying to get the highest leap to block a shot, it's simply not very efficient to jump at an angle. And I don't think Yao has an amazing bending hip that just jumps out from under him to bump his opponents either. But I have seen it, and I don't think these are the fouls people are so riled up over. Very true. It wasn't me who suggested they should walk off. I simply said that I don't think his players would abandon Van Gundy assuming he made the decision to. Of course, you and I know he never would do such a thing, especially when David Stern is practically a dictator in this league. But I believe the bonds between him and his players are strong enough that if they really feel an injustice has been done to them, they would stick together and stand up for their coach instead of abandoning him and losing respect for him. More realistic is the suggestion that Van Gundy gets himself a tech or even to get thrown out of the game to make a point. I believe his players will have full support for him in any such act as well. After all, this is a profession. And coaches and players earn their living from this game. They have the right to speak up and defend their livelihood to a degree if they feel that the system is stacked against them, even though David Stern might want to silence any and all critics.
Yes, with regards to contact fouls. The line itself is a technical mark just like the 3 point line is. There is no discretion there with regards to whether you are inside of it or outside of it. You either are or you aren't. Just like you are either behind the 3 pt line, or you aren't. The ref can't say "well, the defender was on the line, but he was close enough to being outside so I am going to call a charge". If he did, then he would be flat out wrong because the rule says the defender has to be outside the arc on that or else a charge can't be called. Ummm, thats whats its there for if a call has to be made either way depending on amount of contact. They don't call it either way every time. Again, you are just exagerrating here. We must be watching different games, because I see refs swallow their whistles on these plays quite often when the contact is incidental (and again, the refs could have easily swallowed the whistle on this play in question, but thats not the point of this discussion ..its whethe the refs have a right to call a foul on a defender inside the arc when he tries to draw a charge or plant himself here).
The rules clearly state that refs are to use judgement and discretion. If (as in my example) the defender is clearly in front of the restricted zone line but still moving, then the correct call would be for a blocking foul to be called. But as I stated, refs are not using their heads on this. With only isolated exception, they are calling charges on such plays and simply going by only the restricted zone line.
I agree that sometimes he hasn't committed a foul. But I do think some confuse that with the times that Yao does give some body, because they do look similar. I think it strikes a chord with so many posters because they have a "Yao against the world" mentality in that, they think everything is a conspiracy and everyone is out to get Yao. IOW, I question their objectivity in the matter. Thats not an uncommon phenomenon though. In fact, every major sports team has fans like that. He is more subtle about it the last year or so, but most times he uses that move, he uses his off arm, and based on the rule book, its illegal to do that. So the refs clearly give him some leeway there. Well, Yao is not an efficient jumper anyway. Regardless, he is not always square to the guy he is sliding over to help on. Hence, the reason why he sometimes bumps them with his hip/body. lol They wouldn't have to abandon him. JVG would be ran out of the league. Players are competitors and everyone gets their fair share of bad calls. I don't think they want to just quit over it. I sure as hell wouldn't want the team I root for to quit cause things weren't going their way. If a coach pulls his players off the floor, he is abandoning them IMO. He is not allowing them to do what they love to do: compete It will never happen. JVG spoke up and got fined 100,000. I don't think him running up Ts and squawking is going to help his team and Yao anymore than it did last year (which was not at all).
It strikes a chord with other teams fans and announcers as well, not to mention the network announcers who do nationally broadcast games. The fact that something is wrong with the officiating of Yao is not in question. Only the reason why is.
The defender can still move though, and draw a charge, as long as he keeps himself between the ball handler and the basket. So the ref can make a call either way in that instance based on his judgement of the defender's position and any ensuing contact. The arc has nothing to do with that type of call.
But they certainly don't proclaim that the refs have it out for Yao or are intentionally changing rules to get him in foul trouble. I watched about 6-7 Heat games last year and Bill Walton always remarked how O'Neal is not correctly officiated, to the point of being annoying. Bad officiating of big men is not a problem that is exclusive to Yao. It was a problem before he came into the league and will more than likely exist long after he retires.
That's funny because in just about every such instance when the offensive player proceeds to then complain about the charging call, you can see the ref pointing to the restricted zone line as explanation!
They likely don't watch enough Rockets games to see the chronic pattern of bad calls from game to game. And regarding Shaq, he gets away with so many charging fouls you should be embaressed just to mention his name in this thread. If Shaq got similar treatment from the refs as what Yao gets, he would foul out by the end of the first quarter!
If you check each post, you will see it's really less than a handful of people over several different threads who show signs of such paranoid ideations. The majority are simply trying to figure out why Yao gets these bad calls so often and to determine what the team or the fans can do about it. I think it's a little unfair for you to knock on everybody who's supporting Yao, Van Gundy, and ultimately, the team, in this. Everybody has their favorite teams and players, their likes and dislikes. Objectivity is only relative. No sane fan of Yao Ming will ever root against the Rockets. Instead of promoting division, why not find ways to unite? The loyalties are slightly different, but the goals are one and the same: for the team to succeed through Yao and his teammates. You cannot deny that Yao Ming is truly unique in this league. He's taller than everyone. He's kinder and more genuine than most. He's Chinese. Nobody knows whether these unique qualities are related to some of these unfair calls. They may or they may be not. It's not wrong to speculate. But the point is that, no matter what the reason, Yao is not being officiated correctly. It doesn't matter if this has happened before and will happen again. It is wrong to make incorrect calls. Therefore, we should all unite and try to voice our concerns in the longshot hope of making things a little better.
Codell - it seems like these two situations probably occurred in "the restricted zone" so how is it that Yao could get called for Offensive fouls all the time - when there are no offensive fouls in the RZ? Double standard by the refs?
Yao needs to go ballistic and get tossed out of the game, and draw attention to this situation. Hell, I am shocked that JVG has not stood up and said something. Yao gets SCREWED.....big time by bad calls. This is one time, I wish Mark Cuban was our owner. PS...Codell is simply wrong.....the refs should treat it as a judgment call, but they don't they always call a defensive foul, and that is not how it is to be called. Whomever cited the shoulders comment in pro baseball is right on the money....the NBA refs are screwing the pootie on this one..and it hurts Yao more than any other player in the NBA. DD
Conspiracy or not, racial bias or not, no doubt about the fact that Yao and the Rockets are getting the short end of the stick. Anything is possible, people should be allowed to speculate or discuss, no matter how ridiculous you think others' idea is, you can't say they are not allowed to say this or that. No way to prove those refs are biased because of race, and no way to prove that isn't the case either. Personaly, I wouldn't want Yao or the Rockets to mention that, no matter it's true or not, it will only have negative impact on us. Whether it's because he's big, slow, or culture, or even lacking of aggressiveness, the refs are biased. Heck, everyone is, what makes them rightous? Therefore, this biasd result has to be addressed. If I was Yao, I would whine in the press. For example, apologize to the Rockets, that he thought Rockets can take advantage of his height and skills, and he wanted to contribute, but on the end, his height becomes his biggest disadvantage, it harms the Rockets, a team and a city loves him. Maybe he should just retire. He still makes stupid fouls, and he tried very hard to adjust, but he gets more offensive fouls than defensive ones. When he's shooting, someone hits his arms, he would get offensive foul; when he stands still, with arms straight, a 6'1 guy runs full speed at him, without any chance and even intention to put the ball into the basket, just in order to bump to "initiate contact" and "draw foul", and that "smart" "aggressive" small player will be rewarded. But he would be punished for playing defense. Yes, his feet might be moving, but any person with a tiny bit basic understanding of physics or common sense would have known that it's not possible to stand still, if someone running full speed at you, and you are not even allowed to use your hands to shield. When he tries to turn and shoort, a shorter player will put his head around Yao's arms, wait for the contact, once he turns , the player will just fly and roll over, holding whatever body part and "suffering", even defensive player of the year. he should tell them, that he doesn't even dream that defensive players would get called foul for shoving, draging, wrestling him, simply because he's the tallest, he accepts that "disadvantage", but he played basketball for sun, and it's no fun any more. He simply wishes that he would be allowed to play his game, simply be allowed to stand there and defend, not just give up the spot to others, simply be allowed to jump and shoot, simply be allowed to turn and go to the basket. Otherwise, he's really hurting the organization with his max money.
I saw the Pistons game and I saw Yao get called for two Offensive fouls while posting up Ben Wallace. Both times Yao was outside the "restricted zone" and Wallace was backed inside the "restricted zone" (second foul he had only one foot in the zone). Am I mistaken, but does the rule say that in that situation either a blocking foul is called or no call at all?
For me, I don't care how they decide to call a game, AS LONG AS IT'S CONSISTENT. I've seen numberous plays where Yao will jump up with hands up, sometimes leaning towards the offensive player...whistle blows. Fair call. NOW, going on the other end of the court...one for example, Head drives and goes up, defensive help comes over, jumps up, INTO Head, no call, Head makes bucket. You can replace Head with McGrady if you like. You know, they say stars get the calls, then why is McGrady doesn't get half the calls when he's clearly fouled? I know refs are human, and make up calls occur. We get some calls, we lose some, BUT...trying to be as objective as possible, I really do think the refs are not very consistent when it comes to officating a Rockets game. Far too often going against "us." Call it the same way on both sides, that's all I ask.
If it the complain is based on the arc, yes. I've NEVER seen a ref point to the arc when calling a charge out on the perimeter (probably because the arc has nothing to do with that call).
Im not knocking everybody who supports Yao. I am knocking the extermists who feel its Yao against the world. My personal opinion: His ethnicity has nothing to do with how he is officiated and his height, size and strength does. I agree. But quiting isn't going to change it. Yao becoming a jackass by throwing elbows (like many have suggested) isn't going to change it. The fans protesting isn't going to change it. JVG cussing the refs and calling out Stern isn't going to change it. Yao's best hope it to adapt to the refs because history says refs rarely adapt to the player. 1) Pigs will fly when the fans dictate how the refs call a game. 2) We all have the freedome to voice our concerns. But we should do it for everyone, not just Yao. He's not the only player that deals with bad judgement calls by the official.
What instances are you talking about? I don't recall seeing Yao getting called for a charge when the help defender slides over inside the arc. Most of the offensive foul calls on yao are usually due to positioning, not charging.
Because the restricted zone applies to help defenders attempting to draw a charge, not primary defenders who are defending the post (in fact, the rule specifically talks about "the lower defensive box", which is where Yao usually is when he is posting up).
Well, based on stats, it is being called pretty evenly. Rockets average 1 more PF per game than their opponents (considering the Rockets play a much more aggressive brand of D usually than their opponents, this is definitely not anything to fuss over). The Rockets have shot sligtly more FTs than their opponents have. Given the fact that the Rockets are near last in the league in points in the paint (i.e. they are primarily a jump shooting team), and the fact that we allow a tremendous amount of dribble penetration into the lane, I would say, if anything, we are more rosy than we probably should be.
