[Scared to post] Serious misunderstanding about the Virgin Mary...

if marriage is a key cornerstone of america, we're screwed, look at the divorce rate. if we changed the definition of marriage to include homosexuals would that make you feel better. are you against changing the definition of marriage or against equal rights for gays?

 

I want to apologize for this, I got too harsh. I'm angry that the statute passed so overwhelmingly, even though I expected it to pass.

About gay marriage. We're at least making progress when a lot of people are okay with gay civil unions. That's good. We might even be reaching a majority nationally on that point. But nationally we're still about 3 to 1 against actual marriage (that's why Kerry and other liberal politicians won't touch it even though they're probably for it.)

We need to ask ourselves why this is. Particularly the moderates who are okay with civil unions and not marriage.

Why can't gays be happy with civil unions alone? Why complain when they've made it this far?

Imagine this- how about we allow women to vote, but it can't be called a vote. It will still for all intents and purposes be called a vote, with some minor differences, but we'll call it a "wote" instead.

Let's allow blacks to hold high school diplomas and degrees from college, but they can't be called the same thing. Let's call it a "Notice of Acheivement" or something like that instead. It may have some tiny differences, but will for all intents and purposes be the same as other diplomas and degrees.

If you're comfortable with gays having civil unions but not marriage, I think it comes down to this: you're not comfortable with gay relationships having total equality with straight relationships. Marriage is the final bastion. To allow them marriage is to allow total relationship equality. For most americans that's just too much.

The compromises we're seeing now are the same compromises we saw in previous advancements in civil rights. Remember "separate but equal?" We're seeing echoes of that here. People pay lip service to equality, but deep down that's the last thing they want.

People who don't want gays to get married don't want gay relationships, and therefore their way of life recognized as truly equal and legitimate.

We're making progress, we're certainly debating different issues than we would have in the 50's. But laws like Prop 2 are measures to prevent equality granted to a minority. This is suppression. This is allocating them to 2nd class citizenship. This is active persecution.

 

Heheh, not to mention the divorce rate in the "Bible Belt" states is much higher than those in the "Blue" states, and 50% higher than the national average.

Talking about the irony, the bigotry, and the hypocrisy.

 

You can't just change the meaning of the word marriage, because it is more then a word, it is an institution that is as old as man... As a society we are indeed "screwed" because of the divorce rate. Crime, youth violence and education have all gone down the crapper right along with the divorce rate... the problems with our youth today are the fault of the parents. One parent leaves giving one parent (usually the mother) the job of shouldering all of the parental burdens minus every other weekend.

I grew up in a divorced family, my parents split when I was 10 months old, so I know this first hand... it sucks, my life would have been a lot easier growing up with my father there. My mother ran non-stop to keep us afloat financially and did the best she could raising us... my older siblings got into some "trouble" and I fortunately learned from their failures and didn't follow down their paths.

The divorce rate is an epidemic that needs to be dealth with, and as mentioned earlier by others many Christians are hypocritical when they take the vow and then just walk away from a marriage like it is nothing. My mother leads a Christian marriage ministry here in Houston (LINK) that has a nationwide movement trying to help change the divorce rate in Christian marriages, so I know it is a problem, and lots of Christians know it too.

In short, marriage is extremely important to the success of our society... and it is an old and storied institution, you can't just wake up thousands of years into our existence and decide to change the meaning of marriage and THAT is why this passed with overwhelming numbers, not because people "hate gays." If the divorce rate continues to rise and there are more broken homes and more kids being raised by single parents, our society is only going to get worse... the sanctity of marriage is very important, and this passing with an overwhelming majority proves that... now if we can just get that voters who have been married a few times to start practicing what they preach...

 

but you haven't addressed the real question, HOW does homosexuals getting married and enjoying the benefits of a marriage affect hetrosexual marriage??

I also think your idealized notion of marriage is distorted - marriage didn't become about "love" until the last 100 years at the most - most specfically after WWII

 

The words on the pages are exactly as God wanted them to be... his words. Those words are then open for interpretation because we have the mental capacity to do so (a gift from God), and the verses of the Bible can apply to more then one aspect of your life and at times have more then one meaning. People can read the same thing and have it touch them all in different ways, just as people can all see the same thing and give different stories of what exactly happened. We are all different and how the Bible applies to us is no different. As said earlier, there is only one area of the Bible that we all must agree on and that is simply coming, sacrifice and resurrection of the Messiah. We have different denominations because we have different interpretations, but that doesn't make any of them right or any of them wrong.

why can't marriage be open to interpretation? just admit it, you don't like homosexuality.

 

I think you are annoyed and bothered here in D&D, and apparently in "real life." You certainly aren't persecuted. Not here, and not "out in the world," unless you call someone disagreeing with you persecution.

"you shouldn't pretend you know how it feels to be a Christian in this country. In many ways it is tougher being a Christian because of the persecution "our God" and Savior receive."

Oh, really? I grew up in a Christian environment. My Mom was, and still is, involved in her church. She has been president of her Sunday School class for several years, and was the secretary of it before that. My Grandmother taught Sunday School at a Baptist church until she was physically unable to do it, being in her late 80's when she retired. I was surrounded by and exposed to Christianity growing up. Just because I ended up being agnostic has no bearing on anything, except that I don't believe as you do, and damned glad I don't, frankly. With all due respect. It must be sad to feel persecuted and to live in fear all the time. I don't.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

The real question? If marriage and family is the cornerstone of our society, then throwing an "alternate" marriage in there would effect everyone. It effects the very meaning of marriage in a both literal and physical form. You also can't deny the fact that over 80% of Americans believe in a "higher being" and every large organized religion that I know of speaks against homosexuality, so of course people aren't just going to welcome change to one of the cornerstones of their religion.

On the contrary, marriage is all about love. Just because many marriages were arranged in the past doesn't mean it didn't have love... to be honest a case could probably be made that arranged marriages would be more successful then most "normal" marriages. People today are too worried about "what I can get out of it" or "how pretty they are" and crap like that and forget about what is truly important about the person you are going to spend the rest of your life with... For a marriage to last, it has to have love and it isn't the love on the wedding day, it is the love in your final days that is important.

 

I certainly would disagree with this. I think you've read too much Jane Austen.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

oh I totally agree with you about arranged marriages and what marriage is all about, but you still haven't told me how allowing homosexuals to marry will affect hetrosexual marriages, you think hetros will stop getting married because some butch lesbians down the road are married? just saying it will effect it doesn't cut it, tell me HOW it will

 

well I'm not saying that love wasn't involved at all, but I don't think the majority of marriages before 1900 were about finding a soulmate - it was about money, power, family status and business

but that is just my perception, i have no facts to back that assertion up

 

The Bible openly states many times that marriage is between a man and a woman, and shuns homosexuality... so no, it isn't open to interpretation. Do I like homosexuality? Uhh no since it is a violation of my moral beleifs, but I also know not to judge homsexuals for their actions because I am not without sin either. However, I also do believe that marriage is a gift from God and woman was a gift from God to man. The Bible mentions many times "Husband and Wife" and nothing else.

 

Dude supervaut; give it up man no one is buying this you're persecuted crap....

 

You could be right given that timeframe. And never overlook the consequences of rampant horniness resulting in marraige. It is a problem going back to the Stone Age.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

yes, but the constitution wasn't written by god and the bible is not the text that governs our lives. what would happen if gays were allowed to marry? just answer the question.

 

My God comes before my government... it is as easy as that. If the law was passed I would go on with my life hoping and praying it would change, just as I do with abortion.

Romans 13 says submit to authorities... I wouldn't lead a revolt I'd try to change the law and legal way that I can, just as pro-lifers do now and homosexuals do now trying to overthrow it.

 

twhy! Dude! I didn't know. Congratulations! That's just outstanding. Your life is about to change forever, and you won't regret it.

(well, maybe when the kid decides to start crying just when you and the wife are getting cozy! )



Keep D&D Civil.
and Congrats to twhy!

 

so you admit that this vote was all about voting in your religious beliefs into the Constitution of the State of Texas?

 

Thanks man, I do my best, first of probably many (God willing).

I'm willing it to be a boy.

 

Everything I do in my life is due to my religious beliefs. Is that what you have been trying to get at? As I said in earlier posts over 80% of Americans believe in a higher being, and most of those people are going to vote on what they believe is commanded of them... insert the 76% passage here.