China's disasterous health care system could mean world flu epidemic

Well, since this is the 'Dismiss n Disgust' forum, what else do you expect?

BTW, I completely diagree with everything you just said, I don't know where to start.

 

Thanks Sishir. There're merits about the public health care in *old* China that are missing in today's China. That's the main point of my argument. Besides, bigtexxx never bothered to ask how come US didn't control the spread of AIDS/HIV in the early '80s, which could have spared China from the epidemic as of late.

 

I wouldn't expect anything less from the likes of YOU...

 

That's debatable. But there is no doubt U.S. didn't do nearly as enough to curb the spread of AIDS/HIV in the '80s under the Reagan Administration. Oh BTW, someone please help me dispute that U.S. was the early bastion of AIDS/HIV in the world.

 

^^^ C'mon, you wanted to blame Japan and their green monkeys.

 

Funny mleahy999 you would bring up Japan in this thread. But I'll feed you ignorant troll.

The Japanese Imperial Army waged biological warfare in China between 1932 and 1945. Headed by Lt. Gen. Shiro Ishii, the secret Japanese Unit 731 conducted human experimentation using POW's, including US forces in northeast China. Close to 1,000 human autopsies were carried out at Unit 731, most on victims exposed to aerosolized anthrax. Many more prisoners and Chinese nationals may have died in this facility - some have estimated up to 3,000 human deaths.

In 1940, a plague epidemic in China and Manchuria followed reported overflights by Japanese planes dropping plague-infected fleas. The Japanese attacked hundreds of heavily populated communities and remote regions with germ bombs. A massive germ war campaign was waged in Yunnan Province bordering Burma. Planes dropped plague-infected fleas over Ningbo in eastern China and over Changde in north-central China, Japanese troops also dropped cholera and typhoid cultures in wells and ponds. In all, tens of thousands, and perhaps as many 200,000, Chinese died of bubonic plague, cholera, anthrax and other diseases.

I think there are enough low-life Chinese deaths caused by Japanese biological warfare for you to salivate on, mleahy999. So, I digress.

No question there were cover-ups by CCP in the early days of SARS outbreak - they were indeed stupid, irresponsible, negligent, and even criminal. However, under the watchful eye of entire world and with the assistance of WHO, CCP did put its act together in the following months. The actions were swift and measures were thorough. You don't see "Brownie-you-did-a-helluva-job" pat on the back, instead, inept and corrupted officials in local and provincial governments and Health Ministry were demoted, sacked, or criminally charged. Suspected and infected individuals were tracked and quarantined. Independent and collaborative researchs were conducted non-stop to trace the origin of SARS virus, which was eventually identified. The awareness and prevention campaign were massive and unrelenting throughout the nation. Within months, SARS were completely contained and there has been no single case reported since. Meanwhile, anti-SARS vaccines have been developed and tested by Chinese scientists and are now finding their ways into production.

The reason I am debating (well, sorta) with bigtexxx is that I see most of the posters/viewers of this thread are missing the point. While bigtexxx is complaining (rightfully so) about the PRC's unwillingness to control bird flu which may potentially threaten U.S. public health, I intend to look for the source of the problems. It's not that PRC is in serious national debt like many poverty-striken Third World countries thus cannot afford to deal with serious infectious diseases like bird flu, rather, we've seen China is quite capabable of handling national health crisis such as SARS.

Ever since openly adapting China's economy to capitalism, CCP has gradually forsaken its obligation to represent and protect the interests of the super majority. Instead, it relegates to profit seeking in almost every aspect of societal affairs. Public health care is of course placed on the back burners since it's not a profitable *business*. CCP is taking chances with public health as long as things don't seem to jeopardize the China's economic development from the outset. Yes, the health care reform, based on U.S. model, has been nothing but a disaster in PRC. People are rapidly losing health benefits previously provided by the government. The safety net for the sick and poor in Mao's era, even many years during the Deng's reign, is long gone. On the other hand, China is indeed a rich people's heaven. If you can afford, you have access to the superb medical care, you can obtain the best drugs from all over the world, U.S., Japan, Europe, you name it. The uniqueness about China is you can also enjoy the traditional Chinese medicine, which in many cases is superior to Western medicine in battling diseases. That's almost impossible in U.S. due to the restrictions and regulations imposed by FDA and AMA.

 

The three earliest cases of AIDS;

• A plasma sample taken in 1959 from an adult male living in what is now the Democratic Republic of Congo.
• HIV found in tissue samples from an American teenager who died in St. Louis in 1969.
• HIV found in tissue samples from a Norwegian sailor who died around 1976.

For someone to say that AIDS started in the US is about as accurate as saying that a bird flu epidemic will start in Asia. Or that Marburg Virus (a variant of Ebola) was started in Marburg, Germany. Nobody can trace where the initial virus appeared, but the source of the first widespread outbreak is known as "the source". Widespread outbreaks of AIDS first appeared in the USA and Sweden.

By the way, before we start claiming that China was the land of milk and honey under Communism, keep in mind that 2004 per capita GDP is only $5,600. (Compare with South Korean per capita GDP of $19,200 and Japanese per capita GDP of $29,400.) No matter how you slice it, that doesn’t engender a system with money to burn on the treatment of patients. Some of the costal cities are exceptionally modern, but vast areas are still poor and agrarian. Even so, I have, for instance, seen Guandong provence described by rapacious businessmen as "first world infrastructure, third world wages".

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To address concerns over health, the Chinese greatly increased the number and quality of health-care personnel, although in 1986 serious shortages still existed. In 1949 only 33,000 nurses and 363,000 physicians were practicing; by 1985 the numbers had risen dramatically to 637,000 nurses and 1.4 million physicians. Some 436,000 physicians' assistants were trained in Western medicine and had 2 years of medical education after junior high school. Official Chinese statistics also reported that the number of paramedics increased from about 485,400 in 1975 to more than 853,400 in 1982. The number of students in medical and pharmaceutical colleges in China rose from about 100,000 in 1975 to approximately 160,000 in 1982.

[/rquoter]

link

Pretending that it was ever some Socialist medical paradise is simply untrue. The 'good old days' weren't that good. With the exception of a systemic secrecy fetish, the Chinese health care system is in great shape relative to where it was 30 years ago.

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Not sure what I should make out of this part of your post. I didn't say AIDS/HIV was originated in USA, although there is conspiracy theory out there that the virus was produced in CIA lab. The best one can say is that the research on the origin of AIDS virus is inconclusive. Regardless, it's undeniable full blown AIDS/HIV outbreaks started out in the Western world, most notably in U.S. in the early '80s. And U.S. did next to nothing to prevent AIDS/HIV from spreading to other parts of the world. If politics played a role in PRC's initial, slow response to SARS, one can also not deny that both religious and political hindrances were major factors such that AIDS research and prevention were not in full force in U.S. during the Reagan Administration. I am not making excuses for CCP, but I do ask for fairness and consistency when one wants single out PRC as the sole culprit in modern time that coulda shoulda done better in controlling of infectious diseases.

No denying on any of these, but mind you, the cost of seeing doctor for treating the same illness in China was only a fraction of that in countries of higher per capita GDP, for instance, U.S.A. Again, my point was, for what I know, the reform in PRC's health care system has NOT boded well for average Chinese, unlike the much acclaimed economic reform (well, I even have doubts and concerns about that, but that's for another thread) in the same country.

The stuff in that link is out-dated. I don't see any stats concerning the '90s and the new millennium. Heck, you conveniently left out many positive mentions on PRC's socialist health care system. From the same link:

 

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