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[The Times] Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by wnes, Nov 7, 2005.

  1. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html

    September 27, 2005
    By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

    RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

    According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

    The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

    It compares the social peformance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

    Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its “spiritual capital”. But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills.

    The paper, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic journal, reports: “Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world.

    “In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

    “The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so.”

    Gregory Paul, the author of the study and a social scientist, used data from the International Social Survey Programme, Gallup and other research bodies to reach his conclusions.

    He compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy.

    The study concluded that the US was the world’s only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from “ uniquely high” adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.

    Mr Paul said: “The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America.”

    He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.

    Mr Paul delayed releasing the study until now because of Hurricane Katrina. He said that the evidence accumulated by a number of different studies suggested that religion might actually contribute to social ills. “I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states,” he added.

    He said that most Western nations would become more religious only if the theory of evolution could be overturned and the existence of God scientifically proven. Likewise, the theory of evolution would not enjoy majority support in the US unless there was a marked decline in religious belief, Mr Paul said.

    “The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator.

    “The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted.”
     
  2. Bullard4Life

    Bullard4Life Member

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    I didn't know that this was actually a big matter of debate. I think that the study shows more how little America's approach to social policy makes. Granted, the Christian right does have a negative effect on certain elements, such as STD and abortion rates thanks to suppression of sex education. However, violent crime, drug use, etc. is more of a sign of a callous approach to poverty and other social issues than it is an indictment of religion.
     
  3. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Well, it is also true that since the Christian "Right" is conservative, that it negatively effects the economic well being of roughly 75% of American society. (The 75% percentile income for American families which is roughly $57k per year)

    To be fair to Christianiity, unlike the Southern Baptists and many Evangelicals there are versions which aren't just appendages to the current reactionary GOP. The welfare state in advanced Western societies,which has to date pretty much been the crowning acheivement in good economic and health outcomes for the largest number, owes much of its early motivation to the Chritianity that existed before the current truncated version that has sold to the political conservative movement.
     
  4. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Well, religious people don't live in a vaccum.
     
  5. Ty_Webb

    Ty_Webb Member

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    does anyone really think that the fact that England is "less" religious than most of the US has much bearing on many of the indicators?

    I really doubt that the "Christians" in the US are driving up the murder rate.

    Like was posted above, i am sure the lack of sex education does have a bearing on certain "indicators" but overall, I think the study started with a hypothesis (Secularist better than Religious) and then went out of its way to try to prove the point.

    The “indicators” that the author used (gonorrhea and syphilis rates? Murder Rates? Abortion rates, etc…) are little more complicated than who goes to church more.
     
  6. flamingmoe

    flamingmoe Member

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    although I agee that organized religion is overall harmful to society, this study is more a case of correlation than causation - they have a long way to go to show causation to me
     

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