Should English be decalred official language by law

I think that everyone should be required to learn ancient Greek so no one has a natural advantage in that they speak the language already and that we are all united in the common struggle of learning.

Seriously though I'm not for making English the official language and I think the US is fine without an official language. At the same time I think all immigrants should learn English for their and their kids good.

 

I would agree with this except that from my own experience of being an American abroad I can fully appreciate why people in a foreign land resist assimaltion. YOu think immigrants here are bad about assimilation you should see Americans living abroad. In many places they really do live in enclaves and try to recreate America as much as possible. I've talked ot Americans who've lived in Asia or the Mideast for for most of their lives and they don't know the local language, think the food is terrible and are still rude to the locals.

 

First, are those Americans living permanently there or for a specific period? Second, so? If they want to live permanently in Holland they have to meet the Dutch language requirement (for example). Third, your observations ala rudeness etc only feed my argument that one SHOULD be willing to do what it takes to integrate.

 

This I can agree with. I just think that the key words here are SHOULD and WILLING. When people do something willingly then I trust their commitment and sincerity. When people do something because they are forced to, and it deals with allegiance to a nation then I can't take their dedication or sincerity all that sincerely.

I want to see dedication to the country come as a result of sincere and organic feeling and dedication, not because they are forced to do it.

I would also venture to guess that folks who do this make better citizens than someone who was forced to do it because the law made them.

 

I don't really think we're that far apart as we both agree immigrants 'ought' to want to learn English.

 

Definitely. We aren't far about at all.

 

You're right one SHOULD. I'm just pointing out though that it is somewhat hypocritical of Americans to expect that people coming here should integrate when Americans are so unwilling to integrate into other societies.

As far as whether they are living permanently or not if someone is going to be living in a country for years or even decades shouldn't they try to assimilate to some extent even if they plan on coming back to their home country? Many immigrants come here planning to work here for several years and make enough money to return home well off. I presume you would feel that if they are here for a longterm they should try to learn the language and integrate into the US society while they are here.

 

In the long run, I doubt this effort will protect our heritage or identity...

Sure, the US could go ahead and declare English an official language (doubtful...the party that does becomes the anti-Mexican party), but it would be negated by individual states with immigrant/liberal pluralities.

Do non-English speakers deserve to be considered citizens? My father speaks broken English. He can't instantly read an English newspaper. He's lived here for 33 years and still speaks with a bad accent. Still, he's done business within his community and outside. He's gotten contracts done by hiring lawyers who are proficiently bilingual. A law wouldn't change any of this, rather it'd open up a larger market for bilingual specialists. So is he still a citizen? He pays taxes, votes for the president but not local or state officials, dodges jury duty, and owns stocks and bonds. What American doesn't do that?

As for me, I share both cultures, but I'm definitely American and dream in English. Isn't it ironic that a large number of Mexican Americans favor legislation against illegal immigration...or is that the nature of becoming American? There's also statistics that support the idea that their children are integrating, just as past immigrant communities and their enclaves. The current percentage influx of Mexican immigrants is around that 1800's period when Italians and Irish flooded the gates. All immigrant waves took their lumps but gave their distinctiveness to American culture. So what's the big deal....

The whole idea behind this law isn't to target educated or middle class immigrants like my father. It's to force the poor who are labeled as "entitlement sinks" to "work harder" despite the fact that they usually carry menial jobs at or below minimum wage. The whole idea that English will better their lives and make them integrate faster is moot since the reason they're here is to provide a better future for their children. The burden for the poor would increase by rnforcing a new class standard with legislation. They would have to make time to learn English on top of the endless hours from their one or multiple jobs. It could lesson legitimate job opportunities or increase the supply in the underpaid illegal immigrant workforce. Inevitably, their children would face the brunt of these measures. Those children, who would normally integrate, would probably fester in the ghettoes and create a larger burden upon society.

Mexicans will become the new American majority. Sweeping them under the rug won't change this fact. All Americans will pay for that conceit.

 

It is only hypocritical if its the same Americans doing it. Otherwise its like saying: Americans are hypocritical because they criticize the KKK, yet some Americans are KKK members.

If they are here on vacation, then I don't expect them to spend their vacation learning the intricacies of the language and culture. Otherwise, yes - I do. I would expect the same of Americans living elsewhere as well.

 

Nice post. My father also was an immigrant - also still speaks with a heavy accent. I think there is a difference between this ohio law specifically and having a language requirement. All the burdens you assert are not necessarily the case - for instance - I would support a program to provide aid to new immigrants so they can learn english.

 

That the Netherlands, arguably the most liberal country in the world, one I've spent months in, to the point where I could understand some conversation in Dutch, much to my surprise (and I surprised some of my wife's Dutch relatives, lol!), has a language requirement should make my liberal friends, and the rest of you , sit up and take notice. It is a legitimate argument... where do we draw the line? In the past, immigrants worked hard to learn English. They had to, and by all accounts, the vast majority wanted to. Yet today we bend over backwards to facilitate the continued use of Spanish by our citizens. Are we really doing them a favor?

I have very mixed feelings on the subject. My wife doesn't speak Dutch today because her father forbid it's use in their home. Her mother was a Dutch immigrant as a teenager, had a host of relatives in the Netherlands, and spoke fluent Dutch until the day she died, but spoke flawless English. Unless you knew it, one would never have suspected that Dutch was the language she grew up with. I think my wife's father was narrow minded and wrong in what he did, and hurt his own children's ability to have a closer link to their own cultural heritage. At the same time, it wouldn't have occurred to my mother-in-law to expect Dutch on street signs, Dutch on government documents, Dutch on supermarket labels, or to have the pledge of allegiance said in Dutch as well as English.

One may say that Dutch is a rather obscure language. I would answer, why does that make a difference?



Keep D&D Civil.

 

And nevermind the drain on resources that multilinguilism mandates. ESL needs to go away.

 

ESL is a program that teaches English. Are you saying that immigrants shouldn't be taught English?

 

Yeah, yeah....you were there to....uh.....visit with your wife's family...

 

Dam you Hayes now I can't argue with you because we agree..

 

I think the difference is that Holland isn't a small country that isn't a country of immigrants founded on abstract ideals but a country with an intrinsic historical and cultural foundation. The US on the other hand is a nation of immigrants and while the majority at the time of the founding spoke English even they didn't feel it was important to make English the official language in deference to historical tradition. If I recall correctly some of them wanted to German or French to be our official language to emphasize the break with England.

I don't see any major societal or cultural problem with accomodating Spanish speakers. It might not be that long before Spanish is the native tongue of a majority of Americans. At that point I'm sure many of the English speakers will be against making Spanish the official language even if it is spoken by most of the population.

 

I never said I thought English should be made the official language, but I think we need to have immigrants learn our language. And pardon me, but English is the language of the United States, whether it's official or not, and should remain so. In my opinion.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Yes.

Wanna live in America? Learn to speak English.

If I move to Germany, should I expect them to change their national language to accommodate English? Or Norway? Or Japan? Or any other friggin' country in the whole world? No.

 

I agree they should learn, and anyone who moves should learn. What I don't agree with is that it is important enough to make into a law. They should want to do it, and not be forced to do it.