According to Charley Rosen. Karl Malone and David Robinson also make it onto Rosen's dubious list. http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3882560?GT1=7409 Dennis Rodman, Joe Dumars and Rick Barry headline his all time underated players lists. http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3885926
All Overrated: The numbers are misleading, and so is the hype. The truth is that too many "good" players are wrongly celebrated as being all-time greats. To set the record straight, here's an alphabetical list of the most overrated NBA players ever. Charles Barkley The Round Mound of Rebound was never in acceptable game shape. But reporting to one Houston training camp 20 pounds overweight didn't prevent him from chastising his teammates for not being serious about challenging for the championship. Also, he only played defense when the spirit moved him — which was very seldom. These days, he complains about not having played with top-flight teammates — left unsaid, however, is the fact that Barkley's self-involved style of play did nothing to compliment whatever talents his teammates did have. Over the course of his career, Barkley's selfishness and total lack of discipline made him a chronic underachiever. Walt Bellamy He was lazy, sloppy, soft, selfish, defenseless, and useless in the clutch. The media called him "Big Bells," but his fellow players had another name for him — "Tinker Bell". His career averages of 20.1 points and 13.7 rebounds per game notwithstanding, what's Bellamy doing in the Hall of Fame? Patrick Ewing Patrick Ewing wasn't exactly his best when the game was on the line. (Otto Greule Jr. / Getty Images) Had he played out of the spotlight in someplace like Orlando or Salt Lake City, Ewing would be remembered as a jump-shooting center who worked hard. Period. With the adulatory New York fans and media filtering their perceptions through the lens of their need to have heroes to celebrate, Ewing was celebrated as being far better than he really was. In truth, he couldn't handle, pass, move laterally, and do anything worthwhile when an important game was on the line. Moreover, his dim apprehension of what the game was all about precluded any thoughts of being unselfish. Except for the early days of the Mets and the Brooklyn Dodgers, New York sports fans rarely hitch their devotion to a loser like Ewing. George Gervin Double-G was a great scorer, smooth and virtually unstoppable. And that's all, folks. He couldn't (or didn't) pass, defend, or rebound. Gervin's idea of team basketball was when a teammate passed him the ball. Of necessity, his San Antonio teams played high-octane offense and flat-tire defense. That's why Gervin never played in a championship series. Connie Hawkins He could finish in spectacular ways, and he could make both plain and simple passes. Otherwise, he couldn't shoot, rebound, run, or play defense. How bad was the Hawk's defense? The first time he played in Madison Square Garden, the Suns tried to hide Hawkins' atrocious defense by matching him up with Dick Barnett. Too bad Barnett was so insulted by the ploy that he lit up Hawkins for 35 points. Also, nobody ever accused Hawkins of having a passion to play basketball: He once told the Suns that he couldn't play that night because he had a fever. A doctor was summoned, and Hawkins' temperature registered at 98.9. As a result, Hawkins felt justified to sit on the bench in his civvies. Hawkins was all flash and very little substance. Elvin Hayes He could do three things — rebound, block shots, and shoot a high percentage on turnaround jumpers from the left box. He couldn't pass, handle, play honest defense, or hit a clutch shot to get into heaven. In addition, he paid no attention to the basketball alphabet of Xs and Os. All he cared about was "me-ball-basket." Karl Malone I've been on this guy's case many times before, and for the same reasons. He found various ways to choke in the 1996 Conference finals and in the 1997 and 1998 Finals — missed free throws, damaging turnovers, ill-advised shots, losing gambles on defense, and so on. In addition, his passing skills and his defense were both overblown, and his assist-turnover ration was a horrendous 5:4. There are only two reasons why Malone is deemed to be an elite power-forward — John Stockton, and longevity. Bob McAdoo Here's all anyone needs to know about McAdoo's game: When he played against the Celtics, McAdoo was usually defended by Dave Cowens. Now Cowens was a legitimate tough guy who always played with intensity, power, and courage, and whose rough-house tactics on defense would often approach minor felonies. At the start of McAdoo's matchups with Cowens, B-Mac would assume his favorite position on the left box. Perhaps he'd even get a shot off. Perhaps he'd even get fouled. But Cowens would definitely assault him with elbows, knees, hips, forearms, and fists. By the middle of the first quarter, McAdoo would post-up five feet beyond the box. By the end of the fourth quarter, he'd be looking to receive the ball near the 3-point line. Anything to avoid contact. In other words, McAdoo was nothing more than a big, quick, soft, jump-shooter deluxe. Pete Maravich A one-man circus who wouldn't throw a pass unless it was behind the back or through the legs or in one ear and out the other. And his completion rate was barely above .500. His ball-hogging made him unpopular with his teammates, but scored big-time with the media. It's no accident that his teams were always pretenders and never contenders. It also says here that Maravich was the worst defender in NBA history. Gary Payton G.P. has always been a shoot-first point guard, favoring post-ups, open middles, and high-and-low screens to locate his shots. He was also a confrontational player, demanding perfection form his teammates and his coaches, but never from himself. Payton's reputation for playing outstanding defense gained him All-Defense honors for nine seasons, and a famous nickname, "The Glove." Even so, during the 1996 Finals, the Chicago Bulls set out to prove something that they already knew — that Payton's rep was mostly bogus. In lieu of playing solid contain defense, Payton routinely gambled for steals at every opportunity, and when he failed he put his teammates in jeopardy. The Bulls limited Payton's room to maneuver by posting Michael Jordan, who had little difficulty catching, shooting, driving, and generally having his way against G.P. Payton's game was, and is, less than meets the eye. David Robinson This guy was a cream puff. He could come from the weak-side to block shots, but he couldn't guard his own man. He could rebound, but rarely in a crowd. He could score, but only on foul-line jumpers, or only if a defender bought a head fake after he drove his left hand into the middle. He couldn't pass or handle. He couldn't stand his ground in the paint. And, according to one of his ex-coaches, he never worked on his game in the off-season simply because he really didn't like playing basketball. Had he not played alongside of Tim Duncan, The Admiral would have been lost at sea.
I hate Rosen but I have to admit I love the fact that he put Patrick Ewing, Karla Malone and David Robinson on that list.
I disagree with a couple of players on that list, but otherwise, I think he has a point: just because somone puts up great offensive numbers doesn't mean jack. The ability to improve your team and make everyone else better is what defines a great player...not numbers.
Are you arguing that MVP players like Malone, Ewing, Robinson, and Barkley didn't make those around them better? All of them led their teams to conf. championships though not everyone won a league title. JR Rider was the kind of players who had good stats that never seemed to help a team win but the players on this "over rated" list weren't like that... And by the way, Malone's "horrendous" Assist to turnover ratio (1.2) is pretty equivlent to other hall of fame caliber forwards: Mchale: 0.9 Duncan 1.0 Barkley: 1.2 Garnett 1.8 Bird 2.0
First of all, the difference between a 1.2 and 2.0 asst/TO ratio is a lot bigger than you think. That's an extra 3 assists per game if you have 4 turnovers. Second, Rosen's just stating that Malone's vaunted passing ability isn't as great as people think it is. Many people argue that Malone is a great passer for a PF because he averaged 4 assists a game. The problem is, he averaged almost as many turnovers. The other guys on your list were/are not considered "great passers" for their position (except maybe Bird)
I'll tell you who'd make my most over-rated team from today's players. Since considering MVP's and Hall of Famers over-rated is sketchy at best and often not true. Top Over-Rated Players from Todays Game!! C- Pau Gasol...7-footer who doesn't dominate and hasn't improved since he got in the league. F- Peja Stojakovic...disappears in the playoffs F- Vince Carter...who cares if he can dunk! how about making others around you better. G- Stephon Marbury...a team with him on it will never reach the finals G- Steve Francis...we all know that Brian
Your observation about the ratio is well taken. Clearly Bird was a superb passer and I'm not saying that Malone was his equal in that area, but to call Malone's ratio horrendous doesn't make sense -- reread the criticism, Rosen isn't debunking the perception that Malone was a good passer as much as he is saying that a 5:4 ratio is just plain awful. Duncan, Hakeem are/were absolutely complete players with strong passing games and it's instructive that their assist to turnover ratios are slightly worse than Malones... Malone may be a prick but denying his greatness means making an argument that desn't rely on stats (his are outstanding) or wins (no team won more regular season games in the 90s than the Jazz, although happily they never got a championship).
Dennis Rodman - Too focused on one thing, but offered nothing else David Robinson - No goto move whatsoever Dirk Nowitski - No post up game yet Robert Parrish - Did he really do anything?
Interesting comments about Bob McAdoo since Cowens retired the year the 3 pt line was created. Not sure how that could be true and McAdoo could spend his career getting bumped out to that same 3 pt line by Cowens.
I disagree with just about everything Rosen says. Hayes and Barkley were two of the best players of all time. I followed Hayes at UH and into the NBA, he was phenomenal. Barkley could carry a team, at his peak he would dominate much larger players, and consistently hit the "break your heart" shot. Rosen is a whiney old man, he doesn't like anything.
Ignore Rosen. I can't imagine HoF immortals like Maravich, George Gervin, etc. being "overrated." And the underrated list is even worse: Willis Reed, Jerry Lucas, Wes Unseld, Rick Barry, and Hal Greer are not only in the HoF but are in the "Top 50 Players" list published a few years back. So how exacty are these guys "underrated?"
