I think if there were lots of Christian abortion doctor killers from my country going to other countries and murdering, then I would protest it. And terrorists often target other Arabs, like in Iraq or Saudi Arabia. Or they target Christians in their own countries, like in Indonesia or Pakistan.
Do you protest all the US corporations that use and abuse Africans in doing medical research? Or the political leaders that take advantage of the people in those countries for our gain? The US has done all sorts of sketchy and unethical things in those parts of the world - and that even is officially sanctioned, as opposed to being a run-amok subgroup of the country! The average Saudi citizen is not affected by terrorism. From their perspective, terrorists are not "one of them", just as you and I don't think of psychotic serial killers in the US as representing us. Why would they protest something that they don't feel responsible for and that doesn't affect them for the most part?
Actually, terrorism does affect them. Their name and faith is being soiled and hi-jacked. These terrorists are acting in their name. When the U.S. does wrong Americans do protest and oppose it. The Iraq war generated many protests. The vietnam war generated many protests here. Hey - it was over there - why should we care? Becuase we don't all want someone doing wrong in our name. When Nike was known to use unethical labor practices, there was enough protest they had to change their policy. It didn't benefit us to do that - why should we care about Indonesians? But people did, and that's why this country is awesome. We reigned in those that would do wrong in our name at least to some degree. I don't see it coming from the Islamic world - and that's my cheif complaint. Instead, the protests are against us and are "Death to America" - the protest are in essence supporting the terrorists. They aren't some serial killers - there's way too many of them to say they are mentally disturbed. No, they are acting on the years of hate that they have been indoctrinated against....because they have only heard the one side - the one story - that Muslims are oppressed by the west and that the west is evil. Until there's someone in that part of the world to counter that, there's really no hope and things will only get worse and worse.
I love the red herring brought up everytime this topic comes up... It's like demanding blacks to protest against crime rates in the inner city because it's their problem and somehow rising up against it will eliminate crime and violence in the area. Probably the same people who'd rather send an armed contingent to police those neighborhoods while safely living in their gated homes....
Umm, and worldwide Muslims care what Western opinion of them is because...? You've already made up your mind. If they speak out - you dismiss it as lip service. Why is the burden on them? You think they really give a damn what you think about their religion? The only people inconvenienced are American Muslims because they may suffer from retaliation or discrimination at home. If you think that Muslims in the East would give any credence to a demonstration by American Muslims you simply have even less understanding of how the world works than I originally thought.
That point is lost on him, he honestly thinks that most Muslims living their daily lives spend a minute of each day thinking about what Americans think of them; they believe they already know (through movies, the Western media, and mostly through our policies that have a direct effect on their lives). Anyways, I am guessing this is what I should say every time such a topic is brought up: I take full responsibility for the beheadings a world away in SE Asia, and fully acknowledge that Islam endorses beheading of innocent people, and will readily buy a plane ticket to travel to Indonesia and personally hunt down those involved. If I don't, I understand that I will be considered a terrorist sympathizer and enabler.
This is ****ED up... If Muslims want to be respected, they need to clean up their own religion, this is heainous behaivour. Beheadings.....and they want people to believe the Muslim religion is peaceful....WHAT the **** ever. DD
You're damned right you should. You're part of the problem. I mean, your religion is getting a bad name. Do something. Do something.
I assure you gaining your respect is very high on my list of 'to-do' things! Seriously, stick to gadgets, clearly a well thought-out post is not one of your strong points.
Why do we make such a fuss over "beheadings" but are desensitized towards conventional methods of killing? Is the fact that it's barbaric make it so much worse than shooting someone in the heart? Killing of all types is wrong.
Because the average American is conditioned that way; it has a psychological significance in that it registers differently with your average Joe than other methods of murder, specifically so because it's been associated with something 'foreign', and therefore we are more sensitive to it. However, we don't flinch when we hear of a local guy getting "shot" to death, because it's understandable and a 'familiar' concept. Exact same thing can be said of 'suicide bombing', because it's something 'foreign' to our culture, while we are more familiar with soldiers shooting away at civilians and carpet-bombing of cities, they don't strike us as 'abhorant' acts even if they result in more deaths and human suffering; the 'result' of the action does not shock or interest us nearly as much as the 'method' used. I am not sure if we have fellow BBSers who are psychologists, but this would make for an interesting topic to discuss some other time.
Who are the American Christian terrorists? Eric Rudolph. Tim McVeigh. Others? What happened to them? They were hunted down, tried and punished by their own government-- in "fairly" short order I might add even though Rudolph had some help in the hills apparently. Are other foreign governments as committed to redressing wrongs as is our own?
Well, isn't the obvious answer, because "the West" may attack Muslim homelands if "the West" holds the opinion that Muslim extremists are a threat to national security? How could they not care about that?
I think it's more that most people view beheading innocent school girls as more wrong than killing someone on a battlefield who would kill you if you don't kill them first. In addition, I suspect many people who would kill someone by shooting them would not kill someone through beheading, because of it's gruesomeness. It seems like a whole other level of violence, eventhough the outcome is the same. Also, is it only Americans that make more of a fuss over beheadings than more conventional methods of killing? Somehow, I doubt that. I think all people feel that way...except maybe the people who do it. I agree, but sometimes people who believe it is wrong understand that it is neccesary. It's those that don't believe it is wrong in the first place that cause the problems.
You're a victim of your own bias. Let me ask you this: are non-state groups/individuals the only 'terrorists' around? Do you understand that terrorism is nothing more than a tool of warfare, and that the biggest terrorists throughout world history were state actors (i.e. armies, state-sponsored missionaries, etc.)? The real problem is you, and many other Americans, have an incredibly limited/skewed view of what constitutes terrorism. As I have said before, you are much more interested in the 'methods' used and those who carry out such acts rather than the end result (i.e. people killed and lives affected). I don't necessarily blame you or others for that, but you're a victim of your inherent cultural bias and what you are fed/have been fed through the media and government propoganda over the years.
In this specific case, it seems more like a 'hate crime' than an 'act of terrorism', although many domestic crimes could be defined as 'terrorist' in nature. The end result is the same, the methods used are irrelevant, except for the 'shock value' of beheadings to the average Westerner, which is exactly why some terrorist groups do it (similarily, this is why US troops in Afghanistan burned those Afghani corpses and video-taped it, they fully understood the 'shock value' of such on act and how it affected the psyche of the average Muslim, and therefore would taunt the 'enemy' and bring 'em out of their hiding places). So you're saying there can be justification for doing evil? That's exactly what Bin Laden argues, that it's "necessary". IMO, those who know something is wrong/immoral and do it anyways are worse people than those who do it out of ignorance. Knowing what's right and going against it is a much bigger crime.
