Exodus oh yeah, movement of ja moderates. ------------------ You're a fine woman, why don't you mock that draft up
BTW, I don't consider McCain that moderate. another ------------------ You're a fine woman, why don't you mock that draft up
I hope McCain leaves ASAP. He is a fraud who uses his unfortunate Vietnam experience to garner sympathy. What should we say about a Senator that demands campaign finance reform, while flying around the country in the private jets of his biggest donors? What should we think about a presidential candidate who says he lied on the campaign trail (in South Carolina during the flag debate) to maintain support of some voters? McCain is a joke, and he needs to go join the failed philosophy of the Democratic Party- he belongs there. ------------------ I hate rice and beans!
What should we think about a presidential candidate who says he lied on the campaign trail Name one Presidential candidate who didn't lie on the campaign trail. (BTW, our current and previous Presidents did -- several times) he needs to go join the failed philosophy of the Democratic Party- he belongs there. Nice... those failed Clinton policies really destroyed this country. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets. [This message has been edited by shanna (edited June 02, 2001).]
Have you been awake the last 6 months? If not, let me tell you about the biggest problem our country is facing- another energy crisis. The Department of Energy released an internal memo last September that blamed rising gas prices on a "lack of coherent energy policy". Clinton's response? He commissioned panel of experts at the FTC (using your tax dollars) to study price gouging by big oil, even though he was well aware of the root cause of our problems. Our vibrant economy, the result of Reagan's supply side economic policy, the hard work of the American public, the collaspe of the Soviet Union, and the Republicans who came into power in 1994, is now suffering because of Clinton's mismanagement of our economy. Clinton's ignorance of energy policy has also killed the momentum in the stock market. What is amazing to me is that liberals and Democrats don't even take a moment to THINK for themselves- they are brain dead robots. Go ahead and keep repeating the garbage fed to you by Rather, Begala, Jennings, Bonior, Daschle, etc... Garbage in, garbage out. ------------------ I hate rice and beans!
Please be more specific : 1) How was our "vibrant economy" the direct result of something Reagan did and seemingly from your response, not due to anything Clinton did? 2) Did Clinton have anything to do with the "vibrant economy"? 2) How did Clinton's mismanagement of the economy cause this "suffering". BTW, I'm not suffering. 4) How did Clinton's lack of knowledge in effecting energy policy cause the downturn of the stock market? Boy, I'll say. ------------------ "Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas. [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited June 02, 2001).]
Conservatives are the ones going around calling themselves dittoheads. Is that a good example of thinking for oneself? same thing with you and Limbaugh, Buchanan, Will, Carlson, Novak, Safire, Lott, McLaughlin, Schlessinger, DeLay, Helms, Hannity, O'Reilly, Hume, etc... [This message has been edited by outlaw (edited June 02, 2001).]
"Have you been awake the last 6 months? If not, let me tell you about the biggest problem our country is facing- another energy crisis." Actually, there isn't really an energy crisis. Prices are high because of the limited supply currently being released by OPEC. There is not an international crisis. Don't worry, you'll continue to be able to turn on the lights. Bush is manufacturing a great deal of the hype himself. His administration recently stated that New Hampshire wouldn't have enough power this winter. NH's answer was: Whaaa? We just studied it, and we're going to be able to EXPORT energy next winter. Bush: oops." "The Department of Energy released an internal memo last September that blamed rising gas prices on a "lack of coherent energy policy". Clinton's response? He commissioned panel of experts at the FTC (using your tax dollars) to study price gouging by big oil, even though he was well aware of the root cause of our problems." Hmmm... what root cause of our problems? I don't remembering you mentioning one. "Our vibrant economy, the result of Reagan's supply side economic policy, the hard work of the American public, the collaspe of the Soviet Union, and the Republicans who came into power in 1994, is now suffering because of Clinton's mismanagement of our economy." Dude, "trickle down economics" is phoney, and caused the recession of the early 90's. Even Bush sr thought trickle down was "voodoo." Spending a great deal of money on the military helped create wealth for a while, but it was an ultimately self-defeating action. "Clinton's ignorance of energy policy has also killed the momentum in the stock market." Yeah, ok, oh great guru of the stockmarket. That couldn't have just been the tech bubble bursting, could it? Ever heard of earnings per share? "What is amazing to me is that liberals and Democrats don't even take a moment to THINK for themselves- they are brain dead robots." Alright, oh one who can't construct an argument without ad hominems. "Go ahead and keep repeating the garbage fed to you by Rather, Begala, Jennings, Bonior, Daschle, etc..." I don't watch the mainstream news, and think Daschle's a weakling. I'd say my views on policy have been most influenced by Anthony Lake, JM Keynes, Marx, Gerald Easter, and Donald Hafner. "Garbage in, garbage out." Gee, aphorisms are the sign of true genius. ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001 [This message has been edited by haven (edited June 02, 2001).]
Beto_Lluvioso Hey Jim, welcome back. How's the evil empire coming along? ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! And his ghost can be heard as you pass by that billabong: "All I did was steal a bloody sheep!"
Go Beto! Meet Shanna-- she is an ardent apologist for the Dems. Dittoheads is a derisive term assigned to listeners of Limbaugh. Conservatives claim it mockingly at times. Why are Liberals threatened by Conservatives but not vice-versa? haven: Marx! really... ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils. [This message has been edited by RichRocket (edited June 02, 2001).]
Go Beto! It's easy to "go" when you don't rely on facts. Why are Liberals threatened by Conservatives but not vice-versa? You're kidding, right? You mean like those religious right people who say the all hell is going to break loose because of Democrats taking religion out of schools and government? Or those militia freaks who think the government is going to invade itself? The far-left and is afraid of Conservatives. The far-right is afraid of Liberals. Moderates are just afraid of extremists on both sides. To think only one side is "threatened" by the other is beyond silly. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
Suffering from a delusion of grandeur RichRocket? I've never been threatened by conservatives, and I've certainly never been threatened by you.
First -- Sorry, Achebe, but now McCain says he has no interest in leaving the GOP or running for Pres in 2004. But since his ego is second only to Pres Clinton's, we'll have to see. Keep in mind...Bush will be running as an incumbent in 2004 and it will be real hard to argue he and his adminstration are inexperienced. Second -- dittoheads is a term of affection for Rush listeners...it does not mean ditto as to what he believes or says on the air. It's ditto to the other listeners to save time at the beginning of the call from having to say "hey, rush...i love your show...i'm a big fan...blah, blah, blah." Very early on, Rush told the listeners to cut that out and just say "ditto" to express those feelings. It has nothing to do with an adoption of his politics. Second -- The biggest mark on the clinton presidency was bill, himself, and the taint he put on the office. He embarassed even some of you liberals here who previously liked him with his final days in office. Having said that, the more tangible negatives were 1. His effect on the stock market in the wake of his administration's assault on Microsoft 2. His complete lack of anything representing an energy policy. Like his foreign policy (which arguably is interrelated), he was completely reactionary, with no clear vision for what needed to be done. A lot of this is due to the fact that more supply is necessary, and Clinton and his cronies refuse to acknowledge that. Beyond that I'd say he had a negative effect on foreign policy and the military. I do agree wholeheartedly that we are still enjoying the fruits of Reagan bringing taxes down to normal levels...keep in mind, before his tax reform we had some in this country paying well over 75% of their income in taxes..IN PEACETIME!! I will never think that's a good idea or a plus for our economy. I do agree that his military spending ultimately saved us from having to continue it later by paving the way for the fall of the "evil empire." ------------------ [This message has been edited by MadMax (edited June 03, 2001).]
Oh yeah, Clinton really brought down the economy. I must've just imagined that those 8 years included perhaps the longest, most sustained period of economic prosperity for Americans since the Coolidge administration. If only those pesky lawyers would've left Bill Gates and his monopoly alone, maybe the stock market could have really taken off. ------------------ Bingbong was set up, led to an untimely death in the prime of his life for no other reason than pure malice. Things like that do not go unavenged. Sometimes it spills out onto the field of play.
Oh, where to start... 1. His effect on the stock market in the wake of his administration's assault on Microsoft Anyone and everyone who works in the stock market knew that this was coming. No one knew when or how far down it would go, but a correction was expected and necessary. Companies were valued beyond reason -- for example, Yahoo, which had never even turned a profit at the time, was valued more than CBS and General Motors combined. Everything was out of whack, and companies with no business plan (ie, Priceline.com) were valued at tens of billions of dollars. That had nothing to do with Clinton, and any economics or market scholar will tell you that in no uncertain terms. Besides, if you want to blame Clinton for the market drop, why not give him credit for the -- by far -- fastest growing market in history? (That's not to his credit either, BTW) His complete lack of anything representing an energy policy. You do realize there is NO energy crisis in this country, right? Or do you buy into media hype about an occasional brownout? Energy prices here are a fraction of what they are in any other industrialized country. They are also a fraction of what they were in any previous "energy crisis" in American history (inflation adjusted). The only "crisis" is that energy is no longer available at the extraordinary and unsustainably cheap prices we've had the last few years. Like his foreign policy You mean the foreign policy that resulted in the least violence and most peace around the world at any time in history? Are you referring to the President that was looked upon more highly abroad than any American President since Eisenhower? Are you talking about that foreign policy? A lot of this is due to the fact that more supply is necessary, and Clinton and his cronies refuse to acknowledge that. Actually, more supply is not at all necessary -- it's just not distributed properly right now. Texas currently has enough extra energy to supply the rest of the countries' power needs without getting close to running out. There is no lack of energy or production capability in the US right now -- unless you have ties to the oil and gas industry. In that case, there is a HUGE need for more production. I do agree wholeheartedly that we are still enjoying the fruits of Reagan bringing taxes down to normal levels... Too bad he built a $4 trillion national debt in the process... Without that, we could have a $2.5 trillion tax cut over the next 10 years (50% larger than Bush's vaunted cut) without having to cut ANY spending. Unfortunately, due to the debt accumulation, we have to spend all of that on interest payments. I do agree that his military spending ultimately saved us from having to continue it later by paving the way for the fall of the "evil empire." That would be nice ... if true. Everything that we have learned of the USSR since then indicates that (1) we severely overestimated their military capability and (2) the USSR was well on its way to collapse without US military spending. Given that we did not have that information, I do agree with Reagan's decision. However, it was not the reason that the USSR collapsed. That would have happened anyway, albeit maybe a few years down the road. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
Man, did you guys get suckered into one. ------------------ The internet is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas. - Futurama
It's all about the libertarians... ------------------ I don't want to waaaste myyy tiiime, And become a casualty of society. I'll never faaalllll iiin liiine, Become a victim of your conformity and back down.
Shanna: You certainly didn't leave much left for me . One minor addition on Reagan and a response to Richrocket: The good economy during the Reagan era had nothing to do with tax levels. Why don't you look at other successful industrialized countries? They uniformly have higher taxes. And many of them were doing very well during the same era. Reagan benefited the American economy by spending enormous amounts of money on defense. This created thousands of jobs, and infused money in the economy. But he did it at terrible cost by borrowing against the future. The US is now heavily in debt to Japanese investors, American banks, and thousands of other institutions. Reagan accrued more debt in his term than the rest of American Presidents had COMBINED. It's doubtful that this even led to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Certainly, Glasnost and Perestroika were NOT caused by the spending war, but rather by Gorbachev's own realization that the Soviet system was failing from corruption within. Richrocket: Marx is probably the most influential thinker of this century, whether or not people acknowledge it. Reasons: 1. Marx wasn't as radical as popular characterized. Someday, read his "A Critique of the Gotha Program." All he really wanted was a social welfare system, labor protections, etc. 2. His concept of the historical dialectic has been adopted by society at large. Marx doesn't receive credit, but even conservative thinkers like Fukuyama pick up on this. 3. He introduced class as a primary strata of consideration for policy. Whether you agree with his CONCLUSIONS, most people have been heavily affected by Marx's class ideas. 4. I actually like a lot of his philosophy which has nothing to do with communism. He sort of only did pure philosophy early in his career (regretful). You have to remember the context he was coming from. In his day, in front of his own eyes, thousands of children were maimed every day in industry. Many families didn't even earn subsistence wages. There was very little class mobility. Social welfare didn't exist. Marx designed a solution fit to correct the horror of what he saw around him. I agree that it became unnecessary... but it's easy for us to know that retrospectively, capitalism could succeed by adopting a "safety net." ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
Crock o' B.S. Microsoft litigation had nothing to do with the market crashing. During the entire lawsuit, stocks were still flying high. What brought the market down were : a) overvalued stocks that finally corrected themselves combined with : b) interest rate hikes by the Fed ------------------ "Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas.
