Al Qaeda hurting for money, resigned to defeat in Afghanistan

Ain't I a stinker? A few thousand dead for a mistake and all I do is b****, b****, b****... Why stop with giving credit to successes when you've perfected the art of applauding failure? Clap louder! It's going great!

 

I understand, but basso's claim of who supports terrorists and who doesn't, didn't make much sense to begin with, so I used your support as to what he might believe and not based on reality.

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=102069&page=1&pp=30

Could you clarify further?

 

Last time I checked, Al Qaeda was winning the war on terror.

 

I know you think there are only two answers to any question, basso. And I know that in this case believe the only possible choices are to either support Bush or support Bin Laden, so this will again fall on deaf ears. But...

I have never advocated a complete, immediate withdrawal. The mission I wish Bush would call off is the one of forcibly remaking Iraq. That doesn't mean I don't think we have work to do to extricate ourselves from the sorry mess our country created there.

 

And the last time you checked was in 2001......

 

Yes, you are You are not supposed to criticize the mission, if it's claimed in the rightout name; you are not supposed to post bad news, because the moral of the good site is so fragile, it will break down on any revealed failure; you are not supposed to question any decision made by a strong leader, especially the one who's getting orders from God everyday. Otherwise, you are unpatriotic terrorist sympathizer.

Before you find out a solution, you are not allowed to question. Before the solution is accepted by everyone, you are not allowed to question. You know your solution will Never be accepted by the other side, so you will never be allowed to criticize or question. That's the new order of Freedom and Democracy and of course new Christian life.

I am a Christian, not a good one, but I do pray everyday and read my Bible. However, probably due to my lacking of understanding of Christianity, I am ashamed everyday of the actions and talks from some of the self-claim very faithful and religious Christians.

 

Post of the year!

 

For the last time, Afghanistan is either anarchy or Taliban, except the Kabul controlled regions, not Al Qaeda.

 

I like how you only call out the conservative posters as if there are no equals on the other side...

 

There are no equals on the other side of this board. Who on the anti-war of this board has accused anyone of actually supporting and rooting for the terrorists?

Such a claim would be the worst possible accusation in existence accept for the fact that it is so wholly without merit, and downright laughable.

 

ok, so you want the mission stopped. what work would you suggest needs to be done is order to "extricate" ourselves? how would you do that work? who would help? under what terms? would there be a time limit? the president has suggested we need to "stay the course." you clearly disagree, but don't support unilateral w/drawal. what needs to be accomplished between "I want the mission stopped" and withdrawal? security? would establishing security in iraq involve neutralizing the "insurgents" there? you don't want to wait for democracy to take root; what kind of government should we leave the iraqis with then? inquiring neocon minds want to know.

 

you're correct, because you would never see such a thing from the right side of the board.

 

Man, is this a hate fest. Not only is the script becoming more and more predictable, but it is becoming a mockery of a mockery.

Why don't you guys "man up" and wrap your hands in tape, dip them in glue, mash them around in broken glass, and then meet each other behind the nearest high school gym for some old school fisticuffs. Only then will we know whether liberals or conservatives are right.

 

Whoa. I can see where people who support Al Queda are coming from, but the JAZZ?!?! That is crossing a line, IMO.

 

Obligatory "this is indeed GOOD news" post.

 

You're really maddening to debate with. Hard to keep straight the threads you're still in and the ones you're running away from (after all, you run away so ******* much). Here's my response to you on the exact same question, in the other thread where you asked this, posted before you posted this, that you failed to answer:

"basso, I am going to continue to tell you I and we told you so at least until there is a meaningful shift in a failed (and very deadly) policy. I don't pretend to know the way out of this mess. I agree that, now that the enormous mistake was made, it is everybody's problem. But the onus is not on the opposition (and certainly not on a bbs poster) to have the solution to it. What I know, again, is this: Staying the course with something that isn't working is not the solution. More positive media coverage (or positive posts on a Rockets site - LOL) is not the solution. I am not an expert on the Middle East, war, nation building or feasible exit strategies, so it seems pretty stupid to demand that I come up with a solution. There are experts on all these things on the government payroll. I'd suggest Bush start talking to the people that warned him before this thing started. They were right and he was wrong. They very likely have a better answer to this problem than his various yes men. I only have one idea, which is that any meaningful solution to this quagmire would almost certainly begin with the involvement of the broader international community. That will not happen without some serious mea culpas. John Bolton was, of course, an extra stupid way to reach out to allies we have deeply offended. And I don't expect Bush to ease up on his stubborness about never admitting a mistake, so I don't have much hope of a greater international involvement. But that's where I'd start. Interestingly, it's where Kerry would have started too."

I would suggest we go, hat in hand, to the international community who shares our stake in this and say, "Sorry, we ****ed up, now we're all ****ed. Please help us fix this incredible mess of our own creation because it's in your interest to do so." I would suggest we demonstrate our humility by removing Bolton for starters and by admitting the mistake of the war in the first place. Then I would convene a group of Americans who understood the mistake of undertaking this stupid, unnecessary, immoral war and allies who felt the same and ask them to oversee an international effort to stabilize Iraq and get us out of this horrible situation. That's what I'd do. What would you do? Clap louder or run away?

 

I'm getting rather tired of it myself, and I have a pretty high tolerance. D&D has gotten really schizophrenic lately. You'll have a thread with very thoughtful, sometimes extremely insightful posts, from some of those on both sides of the fence, and from those somewhere in the middle (who often find themselves lumped into one group or the other, to their frustration), surrounded by a whole slew of trite sound bites, stupid clichés, and vitriol.

What is the point? If one can't make their point without absurd and insulting barbs at the person he/she is attempting to have a "discussion" with, then why bother? Because it's fun? I thought most of us would have left that stuff far behind us.

I've never been a saint, and have never pretended to be. I put the "civil" line at the bottom of my posts as much as a reminder for myself as for others, in an attempt to just lower the level of juvenile behavior here, so the mods won't go ballistic on us. I think things were better for awhile, and there is no reason that kind of back and forth can't return, but the level of discussion needs work. A lot of it.

Basso used several quotes from this thread http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=102069&page=1&pp=30 in an attempt to use Batman's words against him, which relieved him of writing something himself, except for another one liner.

I'm glad he posted the link. It's actually an excellent example of the quality of discussion I wish we had here all the time. There are numerous excellent posts in it, as well as the "point/counterpoint" style that I find maddening, but Hayes, krosfyah, Major, and Sishir do so well (MacBeth and treeman, if memory serves, were also practitioners), and that drives me nuts, mostly because I just don't like to write in that style when debating. I enjoy reading it, but not doing it.

Why do we have to lard D&D with this other, meaningless BS? What's ironic, to me, is that this forum has actually gotten more interesting lately. Maybe I shouldn't complain.

Nah.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

If that is such a great (maybe even obvious) solution, why hasn't the international community initiated such a gesture? Instead they sit idly by and snipe. Maybe things really aren't that bad in Iraq? No need to remind me of the horror stories; I know there are horror stories. It's a freakin' war. Good news doesn't get headlines because it doesn't sell papers or subscriptons or garner ratings.