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Saudi Women Have Message for U.S. Envoy

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AMS, Sep 29, 2005.

  1. rhester

    rhester Member

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    I sense a basic message here that mothers staying home and raising children has a very significant positive impact upon the character development of the children.

    If that is the message, I agree. And if true, then to the degree a home without a mother impacts the character of youth then it is very logical that crime rates, test scores, divorce rates will worsen.

    I think there are a lot of root causes for problems that are overlooked simply because people would rather look for easy blame. (we just need more federal money??)

    When a mother works hard to stay home and raise good citizens in both the home and the community the net effect on society is too often ignored. When a father is in the home and sets a good example of good citizenship and good character that impact is not often appreciated.

    This is not blaming working women for society's problems; it is acknowledging the real impact upon the character of children growing up without proper supervision, guidance and training.

    How many children are raised today by schools and video games? Is there evidence that this is the most successful method to produce solid citizens with high character, productive work ethics and stable marriages and families?

    Mother Make A Difference. That is a good message.

    (thought this rabbit was worth chasing)
     
  2. Chance

    Chance Member

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    It is not politically correct but it is true.

    Look, my wife works. I believe in equal pay for equal work. I am not a barbarian. I fully support a women’s right to do everything she wants. Sometimes however I frown upon her choice to do so. I guess it would be fair to blame Germany and Japan for our situation just as much as blaming the women’s rights movement. When all the boys went off to war, the girls stayed here and worked in jobs which they had never really worked en masse. After 4 or 5 years of this equal, albeit forced, footing they developed a liking to it.

    Greed is just as much to blame. We Americans think we have to have everything.

    1. Inflation. With most households now having two-incomes things are more expensive. Period. Households have more disposable income and prices rise to meet this surplus. Prices are directly proportionate to demand. People, the greedy monsters that we are, blow their money. So all of this extra money causes the price of goods to go up. Follow the inflation chain from there.

    2. Crime rates. This one isn’t very fun but it is true. The human animal is the most opportunistic creature on earth. Historically, discipline has been instilled in children by parents. Not by day cares. Not by after school programs. Not by coaches and other extra-curricular leaders. Not even by teachers. Parents are responsible for the outcome of their offspring. With both parents working the level of discipline goes down. Parenting altogether goes down. Poor discipline leads to poor decision making. Poor decision making leads to crime. This trend was steady all through the 1900’s until the late 90’s when, because of Roe vs. Wade, crime rates went down when over a million mostly lower income babies were not born each year. Again, not PC but a fact.

    3. Test scores. This is true for two-income households and single-parent households. For whatever reason the median test score for kids with a stay-at-home mom or dad are higher than any other situation.

    4. Divorce rates. Men are dogs. They cheat on their wives and when they get caught they usually end up divorced. Trends now show that women are dogs, too. When they cheat on their husbands, they usually end up divorced. There is a greater pool of opportunity for lust and infidelity with women in the workforce.

    5. Unemployment. Back in the day the unemployment rates were based upon the percentage of able bodied men out-of-work compared to the total number of men able to work. Now it is based on a percentage of people, men and women, that make unemployment claims versus total population of the workforce. This ratio is higher.

    EDIT - BTW - I am a card carrying pro-lifer.
     
  3. bnb

    bnb Member

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    Sounds like you might a good women's libber afterall!!

    It wasn't so long ago these weren't givens.
     
  4. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    That makes perfect sense.
     
  5. Major

    Major Member

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    Did you, at any point, consider not working yourself? That would create same results of a parent at home, etc.
     
  6. bnb

    bnb Member

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    I can see Saudi women not wanting to become 'americanized.'

    But i have no problem calling a society that forbids voting and driving based on gender backwards. Even is some of them are OK with it.
     
  7. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    Are there cultures that are morally wrong?
     
  8. Chance

    Chance Member

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    That would satisfy an individual but this is a societal issue. We have a short time, non-materialistic goal for my wife working. Both of my kids are in school and she is a teacher so her schedule coincides with theirs. There is no overlap and no one is responsible for my kids because of her work so I am good with it. For a short period of time. In three years we will have my kids school paid for and my wife's college loans paid for. She will then quit and we will manage on my salary, forgoing new cars every 5 years, an addition on our house, dinner at restaurants more than once a month, and other things people "need".
     
  9. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    Doesn't it, though? She can get an advanced medical degree with no problem. However, she cannot do something as simple as drive a car legally. Why would she want to drive if she has a medical degree? Hmm. I guess she didn't learn common sense while getting that medical degree. She should be asking, "Why shouldn't I be able to drive a car? I can get a medical degree.".
     
  10. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    I think the mistake on their part is they perceive us trying to Americanize them when we're just trying to get them a leg up in society and get them basic rights. In the end, it's still their individual choice as to whether they exercise those rights. However, they don't have the choice now. I think to say we don't need these things or the right to decide whether we should be able to do these things is plain ignorant. They don't want to get rights which will make them more equal to their male counterparts? Okay...cya.
     
  11. Zion

    Zion Member

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    So would you have a problem with Canadians calling American society backwards because Gay Marriage is illegal?
     
  12. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Well, good for you! :)

    Could you explain this a little better? I completely don't get it.

    "1. Inflation. With most households now having two-incomes things are more expensive. Period. Households have more disposable income and prices rise to meet this surplus. Prices are directly proportionate to demand. People, the greedy monsters that we are, blow their money. So all of this extra money causes the price of goods to go up. Follow the inflation chain from there"
    ~Chance


    Now, I suspect I'm quite a bit older than you, although we started our family late, and I have a daughter who's about to turn ten. I grew up during the '50's in a lower middle class neighborhood on the southeast side of Houston. It was built for vets buying homes with the GI bill. My Dad worked 2 or 3 jobs while going to a major Houston university on the GI bill. He became an instructor, then quickly moved up, becoming a department chair before he was 35. He was the first member of his family, as far as anyone knows, to get a degree. In short, he worked his butt off, and sacrificed one hell of a lot of himself for his family. Mom stayed home and looked after my sister and I.

    Not an unusual story for those whose parents were children of the Depression, and came of age during WWII. What I don't understand is, what does women's rights have to do with the growth of 2 income families? It was the hyper inflation of the '70's, with the oil embargo fueling it, that eroded the ability of the American family to live on one income. That, and the fact that large corporations began to cut back on benefits, began to place less value on retaining employees longterm, and helped to force families to have two incomes in order to maintain the standard of living their families fought so hard for after WWII. In my opinion.

    The children of those hard working Americans wanted to keep that middle class lifestyle. The fact that circumstances beyond the control of most of them forced women into the workplace in order to keep it has nothing to do with women's rights. One of the catalysts for women's rights was a desire by women to be paid equally for equal work. If they were going to have to work to maintain their lifestyle, then, by god, they wanted equal pay for equal work. They still, in the main, don't recieve equal pay for equal work.

    Chance, I don't understand your argument at all, with all due respect. I happened to stay home with my kids, because my wife happened to have a higher paying job than I did. My kids are doing fantastically well in school, and are amazingly well behaved. We frequently wonder how we were so lucky. Perhaps it's because we were older when we had them. I would like to think it's because of a good gene pool. ;)



    Keep D&D Civil!!
     
  13. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    We Americans do love our cars! Maybe Saudi just don't have the same infatuation with the automobile that we do.
     
  14. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    I do have a problem with Saudi woman not being able to vote, and I question some of the muslim practices. However, for majority of the people on earth, if you ask them do they need a driver license, they would tell you NO.
     
  15. bnb

    bnb Member

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    Well....we do call you backwards... for a number of reasons ;).

    But the gay marriage thing is still in its infancy. Not many places recognize it...so ask me again in several years.

    But women voting? Diving cars? I think forbidding those things is backwards. I guess it depends into whether you buy into the whole thing about women being equal. I do.
     
  16. OddsOn

    OddsOn Member

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    Yeah.....blowing up embassies, navy cruise ships, and flying commercial airliners into our buildings didn't have anything to do with it.... :rolleyes:
     
  17. bnb

    bnb Member

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    Not many people really NEED a drivers license. But they shouldn't be forbidden one one the basis of gender.
     
  18. OddsOn

    OddsOn Member

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    I would...... :)
     
  19. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Is that how far your knowledge of American history goes?

    Study American interventions a century ago and then get back to me...
     
  20. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    I have problem with the title of the article. It's misleading to say the least.
     

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