I'm no expert on the theological differences, but I can say this much: The vast majority of Muslims are Sunnis. Shias are a minority, ~15-20% of Muslims worldwide. In a few countries like Iran, Iraq & Bahrain, Shias are a majority. Most Sunnis are tolerant of Shia, but some fundamentalists Sunnis don't even consider them Muslims. (Again, I'm no expert on Muslim theology, but I'd say the differences are greater than those of Protestants and Catholics). Numerically, Shias are the primary target of violent Sunnis fundamentalists. Except for Iraq, the bombings of Shia mosques worldwide are rarely reported on by U.S. media. "Death to the Shia! Death to the Zionists! Death to the Seculars" were a comment chant. Please understand, the vast majority of Sunni Muslims are not violent. In the U.S. and much of the west, Shia Muslims will be forever tarnished by the hostage crisis and the Ayatollah Khomeini. IMO, as a whole, Iranian Shia are much more progressive than Sunnis worldwide and Iran is much closer to a "western style" democracy than any Arab country will be in years (including Iraq). BTW, they got that way on their own, without an invasion. In the Middle East as a whole, Shias are not treated well by majority Sunnis. In Iraq, the majority Shia have been mistreated ruled over for years. Now that Iraqi Shias have taken over, the other Arab countries are worried sick, especially Bahrain, because their Shia populations are making demands instead of behaving like obedient sheep. This divide is a HUGE issue all over the Middle East, not just Iraq, and could get very explosive. I'll stop here; don't want to go too long. The bottom line is there are cultural and religious differences between the two. One is the majority, most of whom are tolerant, with it's share of instigators. One is a long mistreated (beyond any argument) minority who are starting to feel more hope than they ever have. The violent clashes will continue. Al-Qaida's popularity and visibility now make them primary motivator of Sunni hatred and intolerance against Shias. To your statement: I don't think there is any way an objective person can say Sunnis are more progressive. For Americans to think that is understandable, but incorrect. Yes, you were being too harsh on the Shia but that is the typical American slant.
That's where the 'Christianity' part comes into play. A fusion of Islamic and Christian principles I guess you could say.
Very few muslims know what the 5% nation is. I dislike the NOI, and I really dislike the 5% nation. I dislike the NOI for the same reasons anyone else may list in this thread. I'll let someone else explain. I dislike the 5% nation because it is inherently racist, much more racist than the NOI. It makes a mockery of my religion, even more than the NOI. There is nothing muslim about the religion. Basically, they are a completely different religion that decided to use Muslim terms for concepts and things in their religion (again, same story as the NOI, but I feel it's much worse in the 5% nation). Unfortunately, people (including virtually all muslims) don't know exactly what the 5% nation is, so they associate them with Islam. For anyone that doesn't know, that John Allen Muhammad guy was a 5%er, not a Muslim. Lots of rappers are 5%ers. Ex: Busta Rhymes, Nas, Queen Latifah, Wu Tang. Also, Mike Tyson is is not a Muslim, but a member of the NOI.
Agreed for the most part, the Shi'as are more 'progressive' in their interpretation of Islam. Generally speaking, the difference between various types of Shi'a Islam is much less radical than the various 'sects' within Sunni Islam. The funny thing is ALL this 'tension' was because of a disagreement over whom should rule the 'umma' (the Islamic nation) as was pointed out previously, so it was really a political disagreement that started this whole thing, and both sides haven't gone past that as of yet. Anyways, it's really a loooooooong story that I am trying to oversimplify for you, but if you want more you will have to read a few books on the subject
True, there are radical differences (including basic differences in the tenets of Islam), but I still refrain from calling anyone 'not Muslim', because the Koran does clearly state that God can forgive any and all sins except for polytheism. You can call their views 'misguided' or 'misinformed', but I just can't call anyone who claims to believe in the one true God a 'non-Muslim'; radical monotheism is the basic principal behind Islam.
Thanks and no thanks tigermission1. Thanks for your additional comments and no thanks to your invitation to learn more about Islam. I focus on the political issues between the Sunni and Shia only. That by itself is fascinating enough for me. I just love geopolitics, especially the Middle East, ISB & Far East.
Sorry . . did not mean to offend The ideal comes from one of my roommates in college He was sunni . .. and refered to the Shiites as 'those fundamentalist nuts' Rocket River
Sorry, wasn't really directed at you, I was just sending out a general invitation to those who want to learn more to research on the subject for themselves, wasn't meant as a direct invitation to you, your comments reflect a good understanding of the subject.
but the 5% do commit polytheism, they say that allah exists in each black person, so in theory each follower of their religion is a god. which is shirk, which makes them nonmuslims in the opinion of most muslims also the ones that claim there is a prophet after muhammad pbuh are considered apostates and not muslims.
hmm... you know, i dont know why i post in these threads. a 10 year old probably knows more then I do about Ismailis. But I do know that we pay zakat, we are suppose to fast (most choose not to and falsely claim that we dont have to. we pray three times a day. my wife says we take an esoteric (sp?) approach to hajj. we don't have to physically go to mecca. suppose to achieve forgivenes through meditation. something to do with how its not fair that you have to go to mecca to achieve forgiveness of your sin. rich people can afford to go there, while poor cant.
understood i acknowledged the zakat part, and you can tell how much is given by the looks of these million dollar jamat khana's. and as for hajj, it isnt fardh on you if you cant afford it. anyways, thx for the info.
No offense, but thanks for proving my pointthat muslims don't have any idea about what the the 5% nation is and what their beliefs are. Younger muslims hear 5%er rappers using muslim vocabulary and get very excited because they think that these rappers are all muslim. http://pandora.cs.elon.edu/an/What.html Look at #7
Lol, I remember during my freshman year of college, I got listed on some Ismaili mailing list and I kept on getting invited to campus related Ismaili functions because they thought I was Ismaili.
i think people are confusing the terms "progressive" with being western. i hate to take this stance, but just becuase someone is making their culture closer to that of being american doesn't make them "progressive" and in fact i think thats an extreme and harsh ethnocentric view of the world. shias are more liberal than sunnis. ismailis are more liberal than shias. nation is just a cult founded on hatred of white people. as for whos right or wrong in their liberal or conservative views, ill let someone else judge. but i just dont think its right to attach the "progressive" label, its like saying these poor people are finally working their way up to living the standard of american life. don't get me wrong, i am born and raised in america, but i feel that we should not consider our culture or 'way of life' superior to another culture or the way they choose to live their lives. i mean really, how would we like it if china started coming here and forcing us to be communist? "to each his own" and anyway i also want to say that i am a fairly conservative sunni muslim, and the VAAAAAAAAAAAAAST majority of practicing sunnis don't hold the extremist views outlined in this thread. we might hate certain beliefs that some EXTREME shia groups may hold but we dont hate them or want to kill them, etc etc (actually the very thought of that is ludicrous), but its like tigermission said, that the core of our belief is to actualise and practice monotheism.
or The Nation is a organization founded as a reaction to Hatred and persecution of Black People? Prespective Rocket River
actually if you really delve into the teachings of nation and 5%ers, you'll find that they believe the white man was some kind of an evil creation from a science expirement or something (i can't remember if its all nation or just the 5%ers).
Cultural relativism is a dangerous game. That way leads to a complete lack of moral absolutes and the justification of anything.
and ethnocentrism is ok and doesn't cause the same things? if you want to talk about moral absoloutes... lets just take issues of abortion and homosexual marriages/adoption for example. some people, religions, cultures, may consider this morally repugnant and reprehensible. but in some cultures, religions, etc its considered ok, and is promoted. what standard are you going to use to judge which one is right?
i meant to add that if a country were to move towards legalizing abortion and allowing homosexuals to adopt, marry, etc. they would be considered "progressive" and moving towards the american liberal ideal, however it would come at the expense of their culture and religion. what gives us the right to change their moral code of behavior and acceptability?
