I've only been really active in Clutchfans and the D & D for about a year and a half so I don't really know much about the good old days but even now compared to some other internet political and issues forums I've been on I think the D & D is actually pretty good. If you want to see an ugly cess pool of partisanship insults go to the NYTimes Bush forum. While things have gotten very divided, and IMO I've been turned off by a lot of the recriminations regarding Hurricane Katrina, I still enjoy reading the D & D and find it a pretty adictive place to get my fix of discussion on important issues. While there certainly are trolls on both sides, and I won't name names, in general I think most of the posters are thoughtful, intelligent and people genuinely interested in debate rather than just looking to insult each other. Of course we have giant disagreements and we all get heated and disgusted at each other, these wouldn't be controversial issues if we didn't, but I think it would be a mistake to just pretend to get along and silence our passion on these topics. Speaking from my own experience I have some very strong disagreements with Rhester and Mad Max that go to the cores of our world views but I can say that I've come to respect and even admire them. At the sametime I've often been surprised by profound insights or unexpected opinions from posters who I thought I already knew what they're positions were already. So I'm not about to give up hope for the D & D and still think its great online community. Besides we're all Rockets fans so no matter how much we hate or love Bush, rampantly indulge in sex and drugs or want to implement a puritanical theocratic state that makes Iran look like Haight Asbury, turn the US into a communist collective or have the poor and weak exploited by the wealthy and politically connected, kill Iraqis or Americans, toss science out the window or teach that humans are nothing more than soulless bald apes no better than slime molds, abort fetuses on demand or reduce women to breeding machines, uphold the master aryan race or kill whitey, launch a jihad or a crusade, get annexed by Canada or blame Canada (am I missing anything here?) we will all still be bound by our love of the Rockets and hatred of the Mavs!
What happened to the D&D? People like Batman Jones calling those who disagree with him (bigtexxxx, Trader_Jorge, basso) trolls, that happened. I don't see how Batman Jones is any less of a troll than any of those mentioned by him.
What? Batman Jones argues with rational thinking and facts 99% of the time. 99% of the time, bigtexxx and t_j just make broad sweeping statements and insult people. And when people refute their points, they disappear. They constantly use the phrase "you liberals" even though many of the liberal posters have different viewpoints. I never see a rational poster post in that way. Not liberals or conservatives.
If I want stupid fun I'll watch The Three Stooges. I'm not sure why I'm qualified for this singular attention, but I'd just as soon disqualify myself, please.
I am a Rocket fan, Clutchfans is a great hangout. I am around Christians alot. D&D has diversity. I get side tracked when I debate. I have met some great people through D&D I wish I had been around for the 'good old D&D'. I don't put much trust in politics and I vote Republican but I don't like it. If someone could explain to me how a Christian should vote I would listen.
Hayes, come on. No, you haven't actually said the words "Muslims are bad people ". However, you have had frequent posts, including threads you started, essentially buttressing your support for the war because of what you consider defects in the Muslim religion or culture in general. I believe the tone comes through and I don't believe I'm making this up. That being said, your reaction has been pretty common after the provocation of 9/11.
I'm not sure that there was really such a good old days aspect of the D and D. Though I didn't participate, I saw some of the end of the debate on whether Bush stole the 2000 election and it didn't seem to be such a gentlemen's debating society at all times. Since 9/11, it has been pretty rough and tumble at times.
I must have only seen 1 percent of his posts then. I can't really speak to the "D&D of old", because before this summer, I only read the GARM and the Dish, but I agree with the assessment made of the current state of things. Pretty much anyone who expresses dissent with the dominating view is immediately called ignorant or a troll, or some expletive. Deckard's call is not heeded. The D&D is NOT civil, and it's really pretty saddening the way people's first instinct is to insult, rather than understand.
I still want to audit your class one day... If I heckle can I still stay... without doing my homework?
Then you must be blind. Batman has written many thoughful and obviously heartfelt posts. At times he has practically pleaded with basso not too question his motives, just b/c he disagrees with his politics. And you can't see the difference between a poster like this and someone like tj, who openly admits that he is engaged in some kind of ridiculous psychological war fare? I think you need to go back to stalking MacBeth on the GM boards.
I have had days where I have bared my soul on some issues, only to be challenged by someone with, how shall I put this nicely, a differing opinion. I felt like I answered their questions to the best of my ability and made several inquiries of my own only to be ignored. Eventually I got tired of it. Sometimes it's easier to be snarky, post a picture and move on. I will agree it has gotten a lot worse around here since the second term of W, and there a drastic downturn after the start of the Iraq war. prior to that you would often see very thought provoking ORIGINAL posts by several different members of the board. What the heck. I think I'll start one about Judge Roberts today and see what happens...
I think a Christian should vote in accordance with the individual that is most likely to support those tenets that we believe in. But I recognize the conundrum. On the left side you have a candidate that gives supports the current welfare system. On the right you have a candidate that believes that a lot of current welfare recipients are being enabled and are not exhibiting a drive to climb out of their parasitic state. On the left you have a candidate that supports abortion. On the right the candidate is against abortion. You ahve to weigh the sum of the candidates and make a choice. I have historically voted blanket Republican. However I will vote for Mayor White if he is on the ticket.
D&D of Old? How long has it been since D&D got split from The Hangout? BTW, I don't see much difference in D&D over the years. We have naturally had some turnover of regulars (but really not that much all things considered).
It sounds to me like posters with a conservative viewpoint are feeling persucuted by what the perceive as a liberal majority. I think in terms of the topics like Iraq I'm probably with the liberals but from my POV I'm not seeing it as that the conservatives are being marginalized by a vast sea of D & D liberals. While there may be numerically more liberals (and I'm using the terms extremely loosely and really only in terms of who supports GW Bush and who doesn't) in terms of amount of posts I think its relatively even. The number of posts and threads from Basso alone could probably fill another forum. In regard to the liberal conservative split though there are other issues where posters that agree on something like the Bush Admin are rhetorically at odds over other issues. Such as while myself and Grizzled are in general agreement over the Iraq war we are very much at odds over Evolution. IMO I don't think that conservatives should feel persecuted and shut out in the D & D by an angry liberal majority acting in lock step because there are many issues that the so called liberals are in strong disagreement with each other and agree with so called conservatives. I don't think there is anything fixed about views or alliances in the D & D. We're individuals and our positions are based on individual views and experiences.
First of all, I want to thank rhester for becoming part of our D&D community. I enjoy reading his posts. My flip response is to read The Beattitudes. My serious response is that Christians are human and tend to project their political beliefs into their religion rather than building their political beliefs from reading the New Testament.
Good points. For me the key items are (in no particular order) Abortion Fiscal responsibility- at all levels Federal Reserve Bank and Govt. debt Interpretation and adherance to the Constitution Freedom of Religion Corruption in Government State rights Moral character (speaking of politics) Globalism vs. national sovereignty Personal liberty Abuse of power I believe in a constitutionally limited small Federal Government, State rights and local control of key issues. Both parties increase debt, support the Fed, the U.N. and federally fund abortion, abuse the Constitution with treaties and executive orders. The mainstream media seems controlled ( esp. since those who own the media are so chummy with those in power in both parties), the Congress seems to pass legislation that increases govt. debt without solving any of our problems at the roots (for example for years we have steadily increased federal funding to stop drugs- while the drug industry has grown rapidly and globally- and we have pured billions into education and welfare only to watch our schools fail and our less fortunate citizens remain generationally enslaved in the system)- Where do we turn when our nation continues to rush into poverty, socialism, debt, discrimination, moral bankruptcy, hedonism, materialism, irresponsibility and we have a two party system that has not made a difference to me in these issues that I feel are important? I personally doubt that either party has the best interest of America at heart. When it comes to politics I am a negative person- I have lost faith in politics. But I know in my heart that God has things under control. So I go on with hope even when circumstances look dark. You can't trust Jesus and stay down, I always think about what Christ has done in my heart and I find joy and peace.
