Duh, that man rite. He see I got no brian now that me 32 and still libel. Who this Wintson Churchil? He has holy place in name. Huh, huh. At least me still have me hart. ------------------ The internet is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas. - Futurama
This is the phrase most commonly used by the person who took the 1st eye Let's think this through Someone takes an Eye. . . .we'll call them the abuser So IF we follow this logic . .and don't want everyone blind . .. . well .. . it seems the only one with perfect vision is the *sshole that started the sh*t how is that a better situation than everyone being blind? Now the person who can see can EVEN MORE EASILY victimize others. Rocket River something always seemed wrong about that statement to me. ------------------
I knew it all along. Jeff is LHutz. When I became a Christian, I had to really re-examine a lot of things in my life. Most of them weren't really objectionable, but the swearing and the temper and the drive-by shootings had to stop. And one political belief changed: I am opposed to the death penalty. I believed strongly in capital punishment and defended it vigorously from the time I first became interested in politics (the ripe old age of 13). But when I accepted Christ, I had to reconsider just what it meant for our government to kill a citizen no matter what the crime. And I just don't see a defense for state-mandated killing. I don't believe that's what pleases God-- so I don't support it.
lol Jeff! Round and round in circles we go... I waiver on this issue particularly immediately after I watch Dancer in the Dark. In this scenario though, I believe it's obvious that Timothy McVeigh has lost all of his rights. He didn't just ignore the social contract, he burned it. I won't espouse on the social contract right now (I have to get ready for 'back to school 2001'... I'm taking a paleoanthro class), but if you know anything of it... you'll concede that McVeigh has lost all of his rights. He is now an artifact, only useful for the benefit of others (though our legal system would disagree w/ me... this is my opinion). In that light, if it would appease the survivors to see this guy killed, so be it. If the survivors would rather him stay alive, so be it. But certainly noone has argued that murder is always fine when sanctioned by the government; that's absurd. These are always case by case scenarios, and government sanctioned retributivism is a good thing in certain situations. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
Keep in mind also that I don't think anyone is arguing that McVeigh should or will be exonerated by the delay. The argument is that he didn't receive a fair trial if substantial evidence was withheld from his defense. As Johnnie Cochran would say, "We might have to re-try him, but we still gonna fry him."
I don't see much of a purpose in revenge... and I do see a great problem with structuring a justice system around the concept. I think we want a kindler, gentler society, based on compassion, mercy, and hope. I think we need to eradicate the violence from our culture starting with government. Institutionalized murder is still murder... no matter what the supposed justification. Peace, compassion, mercy. Let's endow our institutions with those virtues, and hope that society follows. My goodness... I sound like a flower child . ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001 [This message has been edited by haven (edited May 14, 2001).]
I look at society as a organism Like all organism it has to have a way to destroy and remove harmful elements. The judicial/Law Enforcement system should be America's Immune system and sometimes u cannot control cancer you must remove it! Unfortunately our Immune system an AIDS like deficiency caused BIAS/GREED/ENVY/PRIVILEDGE etc Rocket River ------------------
RR: Problem is, societ isn't really an organism, although many sociologists and non-Western cultures in general would certainly agree with you. Society is composed of millions of autonomous individuals, who have distinct feelings, ideals, and beliefs. The purpose of society is to make life conducive for each and every one of those individuals. An organism has a higher level of existence than the pieces that compose it... society, on the other hand, is NOT higher than the individual. We don't operate on the level of society, we do interpersonally. Ethics *must* be kept between people, otherwise, utilitarianism is all that's left. Your analogy sort of falls apart... ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
Actually, McVeigh didn't write the book. He merely allowed himself to be interviewed by the two guys who did write the book. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
