As someone who has seen the abslout horrors of war, please shut the-fu-k up. war dosent solve anything.
Taiwan is its own country. China needs to keep its greedy hands off Taiwan. The only interest china has in taiwan is in Taiwans economic prosperity. Listening to some of you uneducated 'chinese' from mainland china's view on taiwan is very disgusting. keep your low class thoughts to yourself.
calm down you guys, Yao Ming will become US Citizen soon or later!!!! He will end up holds an US Passport just like "Dream" did!!!! Who cares about China and Taiwan if Yao is not playing?
A permanent resident, maybe. A citizen, I doubt it. I don't see any advantage for him to change citizenship. China is many times stronger and more influential than any African country and is still rising fast. P.S. This thread is out of control. Why isn't it locked already? BTW, there is no future for an independent Tainwan. Get over it.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm sorry I even reacted when whatshis/hername said Taiwan wasn't a country. I've been to Taiwan, Hong Kong & China enough times to know how emotional this issue is among citizens from both the ROC and PRC. Didn't think it would go this far on Clutchfans but obviously we have a very large number of Chinese Rockets fans because of Yao Ming. My bad. Yaowaming, I doubt Yao ever becomes a U.S. citizen. He seems very proud of where he's from and my wild guess is he moves back to Shanghai when his NBA career is over. Houston might stay as his main U.S. hangout.
I thought this thread was about Taipei and China playing basketball? Can we talk about something a little less politically sensitive....like how is the Dali Lama doing these days?
Your argument is flawed and makes no sense because those treaties were signed with the "Republic of China" which was the KMT and they lost the civil war but continued to exist in Taiwan where they fled. The "People's Republic of China" took over the mainland and that was it. They had no claims to Taiwan. The San Francisco Treaty then superseded any previous agreements because the status of Taiwan was never established. They then set up their own democratic government and has since overtaken the KMT with the popular vote. Your comparison of politics to business is ridiculous because in your statement you said Bill Gates "sells" Microsoft so this means all assets including contracts. A better comparison would be the U.S. Civil war where any agreements Jefferson Davis and the Confederate states signed would no longer be valid. The only difference is that the KMT still existed while the Confederates did not. They no longer had any power much like the KMT in mainland China. I understand succession of entity. I also understand that China is laying claim to a country and to people that it never owned. People who don't want to be a part of China and who themselves have a democratic government and a self sustaining economy.
henrock, I am having a severe migraine attack reading your post. Do us a favor: just stop this crap here and take it to your favorite political forum.
The tyranny led by the KMT? It's funny that Taiwan was a democracy in the 80's when the KMT WAS IN POWER. Also, funny thing isn't it, that the Cairo Declaration AND the Potsdam Proclaimation both WERE SIGNED while the KMT WAS IN POWER in China and DID represent all of China. In fact, the CCP STILL RECOGNIZE it, as does the US, UK, all former Soviet States, the UN, the WHO, the World Bank, etc. Now here is what I think the problem is, that you know jack about when the Cairo Declaration and the Potsdam Proclaimation were signed. But hey, if a change in regime nulls all previous treaties, I think quite a few can be arranged in China's favour. Such as... getting a ton of land back from Russia. Oh btw, that would mean the unfair Treaty of Shimonisiki with Japan, which was done by the Qing Dynasty, the one which gave Taiwan away? Guess what? That is invalid. That would further prove that Taiwan is part of China, because then Japan had no right to sign any treaty such as the bullcrap San Francisco Treaty. Which of course, further proves that your Taiwan is a country rant is BS. And it's funny that a Taiwan separatist saying "I forgot that in China they sensor a lot of the truth in an attempt to promote their own skewed points of view." Of hand, let's just see the DDP's acts of bravery against the tyrannical KMT:' 1) Fix elections 2) Stage fake assassinations for elections 3) Prevent the army (which "defends the island" from voting) 4) Alter history 5) Telling local fishermen to stop going to the "Japanese territory" of Diaoyu Islands after they've been abused by the Japanese coast guards 6) Refuse medicine from the Mainland during the SARS outbreak (btw politics and people, guess which meant more) 7) Talk about Santong for the last decade and still not doing it, not even one, let alone three. But of coursel, when the Taiwanese economy is in shambles, the DDP talk about Santong (which of course, would improve the economy) and blaim the Chicoms for not signing the agreement 8) Most importantly: Fight for the IJA and massacre in Taiwan and Mainland China while their Taiwanese "compatriots" were still fighting. It's ironic that you accuse the KMT of massacre. These are just off the top of my head. But hey, forget that, let's talk about Nanjing. The great city of Nanjing had a population of roughly 250,000 in 1928. It swelled to just over a million during the war. At least 300,000 of them were shot or otherwise hacked, haimed, burnt, buried alive, poisoned, tested WMD's on or died by otherwise grueling methods. That seems to me like 30%. Overall, China lost at least 35 - 40 million of its population of roughtly 380 million. That seems to me like 10%. Now, if you claim that what happened on February 28, 1947 killed 10% (notice I'm being conservative here) of Taiwan's population (as you claimed in your bullcrap proportional analysis), you let me know. Last time I checked, even other Taiwan separatist gutter trash like you claimed no more than 47,000 after they exaggerate the figure. Oh and btw, as I recall, the so called Taiwan Massacre started with the police arresting a woman vendor who didn't have a license and people started rioting. But yeah, the spirit of that incident is definitely the same as Nanjing where innocent people got killed.
Let me just put it this way. Show me a list of countries/international organizations that recognize the San Francisco Treaty. And btw, assuming that the "country of Taiwan" is owned by the "Taiwanese," then how the hell aren't any "Taiwanese" there to represent their "country?" Boggles the mind. And if even the two parties (US and Japan) that did sign it don't even recognize it, that makes it a very interesting treaty doesn't it? Btw, the fact that the agreements signed by the South is invalid couldn't possibly be because the South wasn't a country would it? Hmmmm... And the statement Taiwan is a "self sustaining country" is just hilarious. It's self sustaining on CHINA's entire national reserve. A very conservative estimate of this would be at least $650 billion in 1949. Now, based on the the 12% rate of return, then Taiwan has to first pay back $371 trillion. Oh btw, you'd also have to pay "rent" for the land, return all the treasure stolen from "China" in 1949 as well as stop using Chinese. You must start doing all this even before starting to even talk about independence, and that is contingent on the "Chinese side" agreeing to the terms (they won't). So start counting cash.
KMT overtook KMT? No wonder ucansee2020 caught a severe case of migraine headache after reading this BS. It's mind-boggling how a common English pronoun can be abused so many times in a single post. KMT self-destructed in the 2000 election by splitting into two halves. Each of the two camps along with the DPP got roughly 1/3 of the popular votes. As such, Chen Shuibian was just a lucky SOB. In 2004, Chen staged an assassination attempt of himself on the eve of the general election to woo sympathy of undecided voters, and then supressed ballot recount as well as the investigation into his political coup. Despite losing the executive power, members of KMT still occupy large shares of seats in the parliament. It's only a matter of time before KMT retakes the "presidency". To claim KMT is simply an effigy in the Taiwan's political realm just shows your utter ignorance on the issues of Taiwan and China. That's on top of your incompetent command of English.
Hey dumbass I guess you can't follow a simple change in object. You also must not be able to comprehend that once you go to another paragraph and discuss a new topic the pronoun does not follow the original subject matter. Be my guest to nitpick grammar 'cause it looks like you have nothing better to do.
henrock: I did not see any counter argument you made regarding my position that PRC doesn't lose any territorial rights of ROC, as the succesor of ROC. Basically, you just repeated your denial of PRC as the succesor of ROC. Mind you, it's not KMT that owns China's territorial rights, it's the Chinese people that do. The Chinese people overthrowing the KMT's regime doesn't make Chinese lose territorial rights. It's simple common sense. Coming from a democratic state, you should know that it's the people that owns the land, not a particular regime. Whatever KMT has done to Taiwanese shouldn't be used as an excuse to hate China and Chinese. When KMT came to Taiwan they were a party overthrown by Chinese. How can you guys use whatever bad things KMT did to Taiwanese after they fled to Taiwan to hold China responsible? Also, every government does bad things to its people as well as good things, why don't you guys take a look at the good things KMT has done to Taiwan, and quit cheating yourself that KMT hasn't done jack about developing Taiwan? Sometimes I feel you guys, by the influence of Taiwan independance propaganda, are looking for excuses to hate China and alienate Chinese that came to Taiwan. Nowadays, everything gets political in Taiwan, you know what the Taiwan pro-independance media will stir up whenever a Taiwanese becomes a victim in mainland China. A Taiwanese gets his purse stolen, OMG, the Chinese are thieves. A Taiwanese gets murdered, OMG, the Chinese are murderers. It's easy to hate, and it's sad that you guys under false guidance are hating your countrymen who wish nothing but good for you guys, if you guys don't want to dismember their homeland. BTW, Apolistic3, I appreciate that you have accepted my proposal. It's very nice of you to acknowledge it.
Why are you guys still fighting on this forum (move to D&D if this needs to continue). From the looks of it, it sounds like quite a few of you are Chinese so read this part of my last post and stfu. 煮豆持作羹，漉豉以为汁。 萁向釜下然，豆在釜中泣。 本是同根生，相煎何太急。 While I personally believe that Taiwan is alegal part of China, and hope that a future social reunification happens, I'd be the first one to admit that a lot of mainlanders that want reunification can do a lot more to make the Taiwanese feel more Chinese. Instead of just bringing up war, debt, ownership of land etc at every post, which does not make anyone feel very good. Stop claiming ownership and work on the rejoining the family angle. My $.02
hey I AGREE with you 100% on Chen Shui Bian and the mingjindang. .they are a bunch of trouble makers no doubt.. but dude . still calm ur self down before you start calling peopel Taiwanese assholes with no apparent reason or justification
If China continues to grow as fast as it is, Taiwan will be under its control soon, in a peaceful way too.
Hong Kong is still part of the British Empire on which the Sun Never Sets!!! God Save the Queen!!! Hong Kong will NEVER belong to either China or Taiwan!!! (my $.02 of fuel on the fire )
