Achebe, You want me to summarize the whole thread. Man, and I thought my college english professors were tough. Anyway, I know jack about politics, but Jim1964 seems to answer every question and rebuttal with inteligence. To tell you the truth, one thing that gets on my nerves is the co-signing that often happens in threads like these. You know the ones, "Hey, great point such and such." It seems to me as dogmatic as most here are there wouldn't be any point that anyone would agree with another on. So I though I'd give a shout out to my man Jim1964. ------------------ I am an invisible man.
kbm, you the man. ------------------ Bob Rainey is my hero! [This message has been edited by Jim1965 (edited April 10, 2001).]
KBM, Give me some objectivity then. Look at the title of the thread....look at my original argument that says the Chiang treaty is bunk, then read the massacre thread I posted, and tell me if Jim is right in saying we are bound to be honorable to Chiang's EVIL EMPIRE! Jim totally ran away from that. no? In fact, the entire thread...rimbaud and achebe included are not acknowledging that Formosa was raped! let's just ignore my first and most important comment because you think this was an interesting thread where everyone held their own or something inconsequential to the context of the original topic!! sheeshh...bury my head in the sand for the sake of winning hangout arguments. China wants Formosa back. We stole it from them after the war...and it is suicide to continue staking claim to it based on a Treaty with a puppet dictator that Jim says we are "bound to". let's not get off context in trying to defend each other. The US has no claim to defend Formosa in the eyes of the rightful China government.
Ok Heypee, I tried to read the whole of the message but it was too long and as I said before I know jack about politics. I get the deer in the headlight blindness, then over my head it goes. But I will say that we must, as a country, maintain respect around the world while at the same time keeping ever-mindful of the safety of our american troops in all braches of service. With that said, I do think there are causes that warrant the lose of american lives and though I'm too old to be drafted I do like to think I willing would lay down my own life for that cause. But whether this cause is one or not I'm unsure. I am just too ignorant to judge. I live my life, Heypee, knowing full well I have only a limited amount of time to accomplish what I will, so even though I could educate myself more I chose (like you said before) to leave the judgement up to the people who are in the know. ------------------ I am an invisible man.
Jim, if you don't believe China is absolutely the most "status quo" empire in the history of the planet, then you just want to make war. Treaties can be renegotiated. We will not lose face. Our youth will lose their faces if we naively expect China to let a 20th C treaty between the West and their dissidents occupying an island and a Sea that has long Chinese history. Taiwan is a more important symbol to China than that freaking piece of paper crap of a military objective and licene to police China that you call a treaty and worth defending our lives. That treaty is merely a bluffing threat that they are calling now. They are calling your bluff Jim, and your silly pride wants to fight about it. Taiwan is not a symbol we need to hold onto anymore if China really wants to return it back to its historical fold known as status quo.
Haven, Confused...we have gone to war and we are a democracy -- some that we have initiated. England initiated war in the falklands, etc... Jim, You still have not addressed the defensive nature of both Chinese statements. Additionally, there were all sorts of doomsday predictions about the turnover of Hong Kong...last I checked, it was still there. As I said earlier and heyp further stated, China has no interest in anything not in Asia or within the context of their own history. If allowed to expand on their own, the most they would do is re-take Taiwan. I, therefore, do not understand your logic of their need for defeat. Five years ago was when the LA comment was made...still no war? no mass proliferation? Still no invasion of Taiwan? A few days ago Dick Cheney was asked about China and the "war is inevitable" statement. He did not believe it and said there was no way China would want to go to war. Is that because Cheney is too liberal or paid off by evil "Red China" (that phrase still cracks me up)? That is nice that you want the country to go to war. Maybe they can make an exception and put you on the frot line. that way you can kill as may of those commie bastards as you can. ------------------ Whitey will pay. [This message has been edited by rimbaud (edited April 10, 2001).]
I remember a quote from China about how they think their culture will take over the world....in 500 years!
Jim, trade will change China, not one of your dream wars. I also found heypartner's question about service interesting, merely b/c you referred to democrats as 'naive' every other post. Your tone certainly suggested that democrats/liberals or whatever were little happy go lucky kids that were afraid to go to war. So after reading your unequivocal "no" to heypartner's question, I have to say, in my happy go lucky kid voice: OOOOOHHH BURNed! Court Adjourned! Phaser Burned! Sunburned! This coming, from a Second Lieutenant, Civil Air Patrol, Retired. ------------------ It only costs $180.00 to have a couple of mullets yell in your ear.
I don't think we need to worry about some other country outspending the good ol' US of A when it comes to military might! Consider the following... At $305 billion, the U.S. military budget request for FY'01 is more than five times larger than that of Russia, the second largest spender. It is more than twenty-two times as large as the combined spending of the seven countries traditionally identified by the Pentagon as our most likely adversaries (Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria). It is more than the combined spending of the next twelve nations. The United States and its close allies spend more than the rest of the world combined, accounting for 63% of all military spending. Together they spend over thirty times more than the seven rogue states. The seven potential "enemies," Russia and China together spend $106 billion, less than one-half (35%) the U.S. military budget. Global military spending has declined from $1.2 trillion in 1985 to $785 billion in 1998. During that time the U.S. share of total military spending rose from 30% to 36% in Fiscal Year 1999. U.S. Military Budget Still the World's Largest, and Growing Selected Countries Military Budget 1999 United States $305.4 Billion Russia* $55.0 Japan $41.1 China* $37.5 United Kingdom $34.6 France $29.5 Germany $24.7 Saudi Arabia $18.4 Italy $16.2 South Korea $11.6 Taiwan $10.7 India $10.7 Brazil $10.3 Turkey $8.9 Australia $7.2 Netherlands $7.0 Israel $6.7 Canada $6.7 Spain $6.0 Iran $5.7 Greece $3.8 Poland $3.2 Norway $3.2 Kuwait $3.0 Syria $2.9 Pakistan $2.7 Denmark $2.6 Belgium $2.5 Egypt $2.2 Portugal $1.6 Iraq $1.4 Libya $1.3 North Korea $1.3 Yugoslavia $1.3 Czech Republic $1.2 Vietnam $0.9 Cuba* $0.8 Hungary $0.7 Sudan $0.4 From the Center for Defence Information http://www.cdi.org/issues/wme/ ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
Haven, you are 110% WRONG. Communism is a form of government, while socialism is an economic system. If a homogenious country like those in Scandanavia decides that Socialism works best for them, I say bravo, but, there are NO Scadanavian Communist governments. ------------------ Bob Rainey is my hero!
Heypartner, because my background is irrelevant to this discussion, I will not comment. You are playing a cheap word game of "shoot the messenger", and I won't play along. Your argument here is illogical. ------------------ Bob Rainey is my hero!
Your happy go lucky kid voice just told a lie. I never said yes or no, so go back to your playhouse. ------------------ Bob Rainey is my hero!
HP, KBM, Jim, etc damn Im sorry I missed this thread. it went Kablowey when I wasnt looking. as far as: 1 china the evil empire 2 communism, the insedious evil threat 3 America causing these problems is anything new?? It is a generally accepted understanding that for a nation to function at its bets there needs to be a common enemy. It is only through working for the better "common good" that people will pay higher taxes. will support extreme military expenditure etc. these sacrafices make the leaders richer and more powerfull. it also gives them a stronger legacy. you can name off the great evils our nation has fought in its short history. you can name the enemies of other nations. all of this is merely posturing. Are russians actually evil?? no they are generally cool people. are all the Russian chicks ugly?? no they are often more attractive than American women(and frisky too ) why does the government propigate these myths? so we can push our power over other nations. so we can spend close to 5% of our budget on the space race for 10 years. so we can starve our heartland to send food to potential allies. So we can rationalize inhumane tests on our own population so why is China so scary?? because the media is telling the sheep that they are scary. the same sheep that fully belived that Russia was Evil. oh sure the russians used us too. they were able to expand their empire for nearly 40 years for the safety of the world. they had to protect the world from Capitolism. Eww!! Evil Americans!! I see all of this China talk as just the next evil empire that we must rid the world of. Why? so the rich can keep getting richer. so the politicians have a legacy for our children to read about. so reporters have something top do. Seriously. its all BS, Its all Spin doctoring. just like in the gulf war when Hussain was made out to be the Anti Christ. when all middle eastern people were evil. but the Iraquis were just starving peasants not evil monsters.same with the Russians, and like the Germans/Japanese Citizenry before them. hell the population of the US was suffering during WWII, but you would have a hard time finding that in the media of the day. wow I just ranted. all in all I think its all another BS spin to give Baby Bush an enemy to fight. so he can be a big hero. yup there will be a military skirmish just before his re-election. and by then everyone will hate chinese people, and wear American flag T-shirts. we will be selling military stuff to Taiwan and others la de da the status Quo continues. Peace(pay no attention to my dyslexia/SP, I tried to fix most of it) ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
VOR -- I don't think anyone was slandering the Chinese people, just the goverment that opresses them. Anyways, I wonder what happens to all the Chinese-Americans when Gee Dubya finally presses the button. ------------------ Hey now, Hey now, don't Dream it's over...
no one slandering the people yet, but I bet there are many paople that are begining to develope negative feelings toward chinese people from this. the media never told Americans that Russian people wwere bad, nor Vietnamese, nor Iraqi. however Communists are evil, so that takes care of the russian, chinese, and Vietnamese. there is a large section of this country that is VERY Ignorant. that is also VERY intolerant of other peoples. there is surely plenty of trailor trash(steriotype) talking poop about those "Damn chinks" we should nuke the whole damn country, that will teach them... I am a bit synical, but get used to "Evil" china, its "good" for national Moral I hate our government sometimes peace ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
Thanks kbm....i said the same thing in the middle of the battle of wits that I willfully participated in. For joke or not, I am willing to make an argument here. I just didn't want this thread to end without felling like you misunderstood me. That's part of the reason I don't participate in hangout threads, because I believe when the topic is very important, I know your opinion is not only as valid as mine, but important to my personal growth...I don't want to lose friends over hangout ****. thanks for responding kbm! *peace biscuit*
Everyone can calm down, Air Bull will save us if anything happens. ------------------ Ceo of the Walt Williams and Lisa Malosky fan club. atheistalliance.org
Yes, but not a single curse word was used, and for me, that is a HECK of an accompishment! ------------------ "Blues is a Healer" --John Lee Hooker
PS: I wonder where that old-time BBS poster "chinese rocket" is, now that we could seriously use him in a thread?? ------------------ "Blues is a Healer" --John Lee Hooker
Isolationism, what's wrong with it? Another idea: ALL Chinese nationals in the NBA must play for either the Los Angeles, New York, or Washington franchises. This goes hand in hand with the cow theory which protects us from nuclear attacks. Hang in there Jim1965: I'm no historian, so I can't sort out the accuracy of all the claims that you or others make. If you back off from the name calling though, your arguments would get more respect. heypartner, I'm surprised at you! Your superior intellect is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Rocketman Tex, I expected this from you. ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils. PowerbizOnline.com [This message has been edited by RichRocket (edited April 11, 2001).] [This message has been edited by RichRocket (edited April 11, 2001).]
